RockboxPlayerV1 - Free/Open hardware audio player for Rockbox

[casainho]

Please give, discuss ideas here, just for the RockboxPlayerV1!

RockboxPlayerV1 project page:
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayerV1

RockboxPlayer general page:
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayer

The follow ideas were written on message: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.msg113183#msg113183

spark:
FYI: to use HDD in portable player you need to use the slim style (1.8") drives that are used in UMPCs. These are even smaller than laptop drives. I guess these don't come greater than 80GB to date.
http://www.hitachigst.com...9758db5deb4703e3aac4f0a0/

They are relatively expensive that 2.5" drives but still they are cheaper than flash. you could buy a 20GB slim drive for under $80

if we can support IDE interface then we can support both CF cards and HD Drive on the same electrical interface.

scharkalvin:
1.8" hard disks are more expensive that 2.5" laptop drives, but other than size they do not hold a big advantage for a use in a media player.  You can get 2.5" HDD's up to 160gb cheaply.  Using a 2.5" drive will require a larger case to put the player in, but savings in weight won't be that great over the 1.8" types.  Anyway, using a 2.5" HDD wouldn't be out of the question.  Also note that laptop drives are now going to SATA and this trend will spill over to the 1.8" size soon.

http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=414
http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=906

markun:
Why do you think that? I would expect CE-ATA to be the new standard for 1.8" drives. It's used in the 160GB version of the ipod classic.

spark:
HDD/CF interface
whether we go for 2.5" HDD due to lower cost or 1.8" HDD due to smaller size, we need an IDE interface.
the 9260 cpu has a CF controller which can be easily adapted for a HDD.
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/...rod_documents/doc6023.pdf

using SATA drives will only complicate the matter without any significant gains.

CF or SD flash
now since an IDE interface is allowing us to use CF and HDD, should we still stick to SD card for v1?

[Llorean]

Please respect our forum guidelines: Use the modify button, don't post twice in a row.

[casainho]

Please respect our forum guidelines: Use the modify button, don't post twice in a row.

Sorry, I know that. I tough there was no problem doing this in this case. I will merge the 2 messages and delete the last one.

[Davide-NYC]

On the iRiver H1x0 series the line-in jack is also a TOSLINK lightpipe (SPDIF) jack. This allows for optical (digital) input without requiring an extra jack. I really like this design and believe that the h1x0 was the only consumer grade device to offer it. It was a good idea and would be of great benefit to recording enthusiasts.
Please add this feature to the RockboxPlayerV1 project page.

The line-out/optical output jack (on the other hand) is almost never used since I pull audio off of the DAP via USB.

My $0.02.

[pondlife]

Responsing to Casainho's request on the ML, my personal priorities when choosing a hard disk-based player are (in order):

1) Runs Rockbox
2) Small physical size - pocketability
3) Tactile buttons (i.e. not touch sensitive)
4) High storage capaciity (80GB min)
5) Long runtime
6) Replacable battery

All other features (weight, colour screen, recording, radio) aren't so important to me.

Of the targets I've used, the Archos JBR was potentially the best, although it fails on (2).   The Iriver H300 is also very nice once upgraded to 80GB, but a little chunky, and fails on (6).

The Gigabeat was a disappointment to me purely because I find the touch sensitive controls hard to use.

Hope this input is of some use, and good luck.

pondlife

[casainho]

3) Tactile buttons (i.e. not touch sensitive)
6) Replacable battery

Thank you all for suggestions. I wrote them on wiki page :-)

Interesting seeing people asking for user-replaceable battery and knowing that actual commercial players don't follow that idea! The same with the touch sensitive interface.

pondelife, can you please say why do you want a replaceable battery? - I want to be able to have more than one charged at my pocket and be able to swap them. Is the same to you?

[GodEater]

I'd personally rather not see the "replaceable" battery - assuming you mean the ones you have to take out and charge seperately. I prefer the Li-Ion internal battery approach, as I'm not scared of taking the thing apart once every 18 months to replace that bit myself. It's much more convenient imo.

[casainho]

I'd personally rather not see the "replaceable" battery - assuming you mean the ones you have to take out and charge seperately. I prefer the Li-Ion internal battery approach, as I'm not scared of taking the thing apart once every 18 months to replace that bit myself. It's much more convenient imo.

Looks to me that Li-Ion internal battery approach is to have internal charger. Swap batteries means that we can have more than one and quickly replace them as in another electronics devices as Canon digital photo machines or Game Boy. Have swap batteries does not mean that device can't have an internally charger.

[Llorean]

You can have replaceable Li-Ion batteries. My phone sure does, you just slide a plastic cover off the back, out it pops, in you pop a new one. If you're designing hardware, designing a charger for the batteries ought to be pretty simple for the few people who need a separately chargeable battery (I'd simply charge one in the player, swap, then charge the other).

[Davide-NYC]

Recording is what will set this device apart. I know that's not the focus for the majority of Rockbox developers but hear me out:

The iRiver H1x0 is rare in in that it has an optical input. This allows it compete with devices that cost $500. There is nothing on the market that competes with it in terms of versatility for the recording hobbyist. Why iRiver discontinued this product type is beyond me.

If you support high quality digital input and have robust recording this unit will be very popular.
It will fill a void that the H1x0 series left behind and this niche is currently not being serviced by any company's products AFAIK.

So my list goes like this:

1) Runs Rockbox
2) Small physical size - pocketability
3) Tactile buttons (I agree with pondlife, the gigabeat cross is finicky)
4) Nothing that protrudes too much from the case. (this was a flaw with the H1x0's joystick)
5) *Silent* storage (no moving parts!) CF?
6) Long runtime (always nice)
7) Integrated mic.
Line-In jack
9) Digital-In (preferably via mini-TOSLINK)
10) RTC (for time-stamping recordings)
11) Charging from a regular mini-USB port 5V (no adapter necessary)
12) *Fast* display, good for peakmeters. (the H1x0 display is too slow)

I am indifferent to the replaceable battery idea.
I am indifferent to color display.
If a CF adapter (or similar) could be used I would be fine with HD. (I'd just mod the RockBoxPlayer for CF of SSD or something)

Just don't leave out digital input!   (24bit/192kHz would be ideal but 20bit/48kHz is fine too)

Davide-NYC

[NOTE] The name of the jack in question should be mini-TOSLINK.

[casainho]

Recording is what will set this device apart.

12) *Fast* display, good for peakmeters. (the H1x0 display is too slow)

I am very interested in knowing what people that records are interested! Can you please detail more what are typical things that people look for? - for example, I don't understand why the digital input... can you please explain :-)
And peakmeters, for live recording?

[Davide-NYC]

Digital input is so that you can choose what Microphone Pre-Amp and what Analog to Digital converter you want to use.

Here are two popular examples of external combination mic-pre and A/D converters:

• http://www.core-sound.com/inbox/1.php
• http://www.core-sound.com/Mic2496/1.php

Display speed is probably not important anymore with today's technology. My complaint is specific to the H1x0 screen. It is so slow that it can be described a "blurry" when viewing any movement.

[pondlife]

Thank you all for suggestions. I wrote them on wiki page :-)
pondelife, can you please say why do you want a replaceable battery? - I want to be able to have more than one charged at my pocket and be able to swap them. Is the same to you?

No, that's not what  I meant.  I merely meant that the battery should be easily replaceable when it reaches end-of-life.  I know that it's possible to replace the battery with pretty much all current targets, but it's not simple and safe for a complete novice.

Use of rechargable AA cells (as in the Archos models) is nice, but the compactness of Li-ion batteries is nicer.

Sounds like Llorean's phone uses the system I'd prefer.

pondlife

[Bagder]

In fact, even the sansa e200 series has "easy replaceable" Li-Ion batteries, in that it has the battery in a separate "compartment" that is just a few screws away.

[crazybus]

While a radio in a player isn't essential to me if this player had one I would like it to be reasonably powerful.  e.g. able to not just pick up the strongest signals.  This is because the sansa e200 isn't able to pick up any stations where I live and the c100 can only pick up a quality signal when held above the head.  Also can audio players only pickup FM signals.  AM tends to be able to pick up a signal when the transmitter is further away or even shortwave (not sure if that's still used.)