Latest Rockbox not working on Nano

[aressto]

with new r15015

i get
Undefined instruction at 00F0D814 (0)

please, upload old build that works, please!!

[embrion]

To aressto: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11817.msg99082#msg99082 (tvg's post)

For me and many others it works.

To Devs:

Maybe it would be a good idea to modify the problematic code part like Neil Schemenauer (nas) did at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510 and keep it that way in current builds?
I know that it's not correct (as I remember one of Devs said, the problematic higher CPU freq is normal freq for Nano's PPc) but at least it works for all.

[GodEater]

I know that it's not correct (as I remember one of Devs said, the problematic higher CPU freq is normal freq for Nano's PPc) but at least it works for all.

No - we want to leave it the way it is until we find someone who's got the smarts to fix it. We don't want to cover up the issue.

[void303]

i switched from the thread I've problem "No partition found. Insert USB cable and fix it." to this thread because i matches my problem. my posts in the other thread link (two posts, i know double posting is bad)


ipod: ipod nano 2gb 1st generation
firmware: 1.3.1
model: MA004FD
format: Windows
pc: windows xp sp2

Model:SST55[]D019K-45-[]-IWE
Firmware :ADBA40KA
PIO modes:0 1 2 3 4
Cycle times:120ns/120ns
IORDY support:yes
IORDY disable:no

[] means a quadradic symbol


abbreviation:
"no patition" = "No partition found. Insert USB cable and fix it."

tried rockbox versions:

• r13990-070726: booting
• r13991-070728-test1: booting
• r14034M-070728-test3: no partition
• r14630-070907: no patition
• r14968-071003: no patition
• r15006-071007: no patition
• r15036-071008: no patition

i can reproduce the working (booting) and erroneous (no partition error) condition by copying the respective .rockbox directory. so it looks like the bootloader works and it is a problem with rockbox itself.

so the only two old versions are booting up. all other versions (also tried daily builds) get the "no partition" error.

the two versions, which are booting, have a different problem, i cant play music.
rockbox boots up normal and shows the main menu. when i try to play a file from the "files" menu, i see the following

first time i select the file

Code: [Select]

jungle
(root)
(root)                                                 [1:1]
192kBit (no id3)
0:00 / 2:08player switches back to filelisting after some time

2nd time i select the file

Code: [Select]

no file!
(root)
(root)                                                 [1:1]
0:00 / 0:00
?kBit (no id3)


rockbox crashes:

• just freezing
• panic screen (see below)

Code: [Select]

*PANIC*
Dir entry 14 in se
ctor 0 is not free
I 44 4F 43 53

Code: [Select]

*PANIC*
Dir entry 2 in sec
tor 2 is not free!
4E 56 52 40
after the crash i reboot, sometimes all is ok again and i can reproduce the crash with choosing the mp3 file for two times or i get a boot error

reboot errors

Code: [Select]

No partition
found.
Insert USB cable
and fix it
or something like (cant remember the exact words):

Code: [Select]

no rockbox found
or

Code: [Select]

Rockbox boot loader
Version 2.0
IPOD version: 0x000C0005
%myserial%
Partition 1: 0x0B 1866 MB
Loading Rockbox...
Error!
Can't  load rockbox.ipod
File not found
....if i go in diskmode an look at the files they are completly corrupt

Code: [Select]

Directory of I:\.rockbox
07.10.2007  06:52              .
07.10.2007  06:52              ..
07.10.2007  06:52              backdrops
07.10.2007  06:52              codecs
07.10.2007  06:53              codepages
07.10.2007  06:53              docs
07.10.2007  06:53              eqs
07.10.2007  06:53              fonts
07.10.2007  06:53              icons
07.10.2007  06:53              langs
07.10.2007  06:54              recpresets
07.10.2007  06:54              rocks
07.10.2007  06:54              themes
07.10.2007  06:54              viewers
07.10.2007  06:54              wps
08.10.2007  12:25                44 nvr@m.bhn
26.07.2007  06:15               321 rockbox-info.txt
26.07.2007  06:16           469.616 ROCKBO~1.IPO
26.07.2007  06:15             6.937 tagn`vi.config
26.07.2007  06:15               636 vhewers.config
08.10.2007  12:24                 3 [PH@XHz0
06.02.2007  22:02                40 NVR@I.H

01.01.1601  02:00                 7 _PL@YLz0
06.08.2007  22:32                12 @TABAz1.PCD
08.10.2007  12:26                44 NVR@M.BHN
08.10.2007  12:26                44 NVR@M~1.BHN
08.10.2007  12:26                86 COJFIF.CFG
08.08.2007  12:24                40 NVR@I.BHJ
08.10.2007  12:26                44 NVR@M.BHN
08.10.2007  21:33                 0 list.txt
              15 File(s)        477.874 bytes
              15 Dir(s)   1.910.861.824 bytes free
after another reinstall (fat32 format ipod and copy rockbox again) it worked again, and again after i tried to play the mp3 file -> crash and corrupt filesystem

Code: [Select]

Volume in drive I has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 3C7B-0E0A

 Directory of I:\.rockbox

08.10.2007  22:18              .
08.10.2007  22:18              ..
28.07.2007  02:33               305 rockbox-info.txt
08.10.2007  22:18              recpresets
08.10.2007  22:18              rocks
08.10.2007  22:18              viewers
28.07.2007  02:33               636 viewers.config
08.10.2007  22:18              codepages
08.10.2007  22:18              docs
08.10.2007  22:18              eqs
28.07.2007  02:33             6.937 TAGNAV~1.CON
08.10.2007  22:19              ps
08.10.2007  22:19              hemes
08.10.2007  22:19              co@ecs
08.10.2007  22:19              @ngs
01.01.1601  02:00              BACK@R~1
08.08.2007  22:20              icons
24.07.2007  02:33           469.624 ROCKBOz1.IPO
08.10.2007  13:28                44 NVR@I.HJ
08.08.2007  13:20                 3 [PH@YLz0
08.10.2007  13:29                 7 .play(isp_control
08.10.2007  22:32                 0 list.txt
               8 File(s)        477.556 bytes
              14 Dir(s)   1.941.172.224 bytes free






greets









[aressto]

2embrion: thank you so much, man!  

2devs: it is confusing when you cant download a working release even in archive

[GodEater]

If you're desperate for a release which works, rather than one which addresses the problem - then learn to build your own. Then you can build from whichever svn release suits your purposes.

However, then you're on your own when it comes to support. Like you are if you use ANY out of date release.

[aressto]

yes, but im an ordinary user, not programmer

and im just in love with rockbox firmware

why should i freak myself out looking for a working release if you know that there was't any for an ages?
i think that remark about working release will be very useful

im happy that embrion just told me @hey man , here it is, a working one@, thats more then enough for a ordinary user, couse i cant do debugging and other stuff

ofcourse its your own rules, im not trying to break into someones church
just thinking about other users that just found out what a great thing is a rockbox, but dont want to wait for an ages for the problem to be fixed
They just came to site, downloaded firmware, and its not working. Downloaded 10-15 prev. released builds and its not working. What a pitty

ps. im very sorry for my english. i hope you get what i want to tell you

[Llorean]

Then why not spend some time learning about programming and hardware and try to pitch in and help? It's a great way to learn something and get involved at the same time...

[aressto]

but why should i? im not interested in programming, instead im interested in music and working rockbox

programmers, thanx for your work, im loving it !

webmaster, mark working build for nano, still thinking it will be very useful for users, or they have to come to forum and wait for few days for other people like embrion. Couse you have to be telipaticaly smart to find this build in this forum by keywords.

[GodEater]

webmaster, mark working build for nano, still thinking it will be very useful for users, or they have to come to forum and wait for few days for other people like embrion. Couse you have to be telipaticaly smart to find this build in this forum by keywords.

Again, no.

Rockbox is not a finished product, and as such we do not maintain a list of "working" builds.

[Llorean]

You say "Why should I make Rockbox work?"

You also said you're interested in a working Rockbox. This seems contradictory. We could be more evil, and remove all links to any working build to force people to help us fix this thing. We don't go that far.

But if everybody immediately skips over the problems and just downloads an earlier build that works, like you intend to do, NOBODY will work on fixing it, ever. So thank you for choosing to opt out of helping, just like everybody else, and helping to insure that this problem will never get any better.

[Skaffen]

I can understand that it's frustrating/annoying for developers to be told by an end user that they "must" or "should" do something when it's a free open source product (in this case fix a bug that affects a small portion of users without a clear pattern explaining why), however telling end users that if they want the problem solved they should learn programming seems a little off.

I'm sure that it's not a generally held belief that end users should fix bugs they uncover or put up with it - it's probably more an expression of frustration that this issue doesn't seem to be manfesting on any nanos in the hands of someone equipped to try get to the bottom of it combined with users treating it a bit like something they paid for rather than something they got for free.

Some questions I raised on the tracker that no-one commented on (perhaps they were stupid questions *shrug*):

1) Why, if the PPC chip in the nano is specc'd to 80Mhz, was it originally not run at that speed? It seems odd to run at a slower speed for so long for no reason, so I'm assuming there was a reason.

2) Do we know what speed Apple run the chip at in the Nanos with their firmware? Do they definitely run it at the full 80Mhz?

Looking at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/reader.pl?date=20060327 it seems that a decision was taken at that time to stick with 75Mhz because of possible problems IPL (ipodlinux?) had spotted with running it over 75Mhz.

I see from a later thread that there was a discussion between Llorean and amiconn about the nano problems http://www.rockbox.org/irc/reader.pl?date=20070728 ... But there's not really been much anyone's been able to do since?

I guess it's left that either someone with a nano that exhibits the problems learns about programming ipod hardware or sends the nano to someone who knows about programming ipod hardware?

From reading the threads it seems it's not unprecidented that a chip in a player has a lower stable max Mhz than the quoted spec for the chip. It also seems that it might not be known for sure exactly what the nano chip specification is - to quote "The PP5021 is a PP5022 internally, probably just not specified for the full 100MHz" (it may be that there's more concrete information since that discussion, of course).

Of course if Apple's OS runs the CPU at the full 80mhz then that's a clear indication that the problems with rockbox are because the hardware (of which flash is a part) can't handle it if initialised/accessed the way the Apple OS does, but if apple do run it at less than 80mhz then maybe they have a good reason for it - and it may well be that there is no ide timing problem or other thing that be overcome in the software because the hardware package overall is not designed to run at that speed (as with graphics cards some people can run them faster than designed without problems, of course).

[GodEater]

I can understand that it's frustrating/annoying for developers to be told by an end user that they "must" or "should" do something when it's a free open source product (in this case fix a bug that affects a small portion of users without a clear pattern explaining why), however telling end users that if they want the problem solved they should learn programming seems a little off.

I disagree. While we're of course happy that a lot of people find Rockbox useful - the project is not about providing end users with a product, and never has been. Bugs that don't exist on a developer's hardware are impossible to fix - and there's no incentive for a Rockbox developer with a working Nano to revert it to some old code for what, to them, is no good reason. So the only way to get a fix for this issue is for someone who HAS the bug to get a clue, and try to help fix it.

This is exactly how *I* first became an active member of Rockbox, when I found the 80GB iPod was not supported. No-one else was working on finding out how - so I had to if I wanted Rockbox working on mine. As it happens, eventually it was LinusN who figured out the problem - but I'd done several months worth of work of finding all the things that weren't the issue to help him narrow down the issue. So perhaps someone doing that sort of work is all that it will take, and it will filter out all the cruft to a point where a current Rockbox dev will go "Ah ha - it's probably this", and find the fix.

Complaining that it doesn't work and whining that you want it put it back just because it's currently in a state that doesn't work on your Nano is not the way to get it fixed.

[Llorean]

1) The PP chip was originally run at 75 mhz because we had not yet discovered the right way to clock it to 80mhz, simple as that. I think that's a very reasonable reason for not doing it yet: We didn't know how to do it the right way. We still had more to learn about the chips first. The problems over 75 came from incomplete knowledge, but we have someone who spent time investigating and figured out what needed to be done to set it to 80 properly.

2) There's not a good way for knowing how fast or slow the Apple OS runs the chip without a lot of reverse engineering work. Frankly, it also doesn't matter of Apple does or doesn't, if they don't it may simply prove that their code never chooses to run at that speed (it's apparently common in DAP firmwares to have a table of speeds for different bitrate and formats, and use one that's just slightly faster than the maximum necessary rather than our preferred approach of changing speeds between a boosted and unboosted state to save battery life) and not anything about the stability of that speed.

As was noted, it's internally identical to a 100mhz chip, but we chose 80mhz because that's the speed of the slowed iPod core we know of.

And again, the problem doesn't happen in the processor: If we were running the processor faster than it is supposed to be safe to run, you would see different symptoms.

[nas]

The problems over 75 came from incomplete knowledge, but we have someone who spent time investigating and figured out what needed to be done to set it to 80 properly.

I would say that 80MHz is working properly on *some* Nano devices.  Maybe something else needs to be done to make it work on all devices or maybe some cannot handle it.  Your argument for not reverting to 75MHz is not too convincing.

And again, the problem doesn't happen in the processor: If we were running the processor faster than it is supposed to be safe to run, you would see different symptoms.

What makes you say that?  The problems I see look like processor problems due to overclocking or overheating.  Anyhow, hurray for open source. Here's a build based on that latest SVN source http://python.ca/nas/rockbox/ with only the maximum clockrate changed to 75MHz.  At least people with non-working nanos can test all the changes that happened since r14004.