Rockbox Technical Forums

Third Party => Unsupported Builds => Topic started by: rpki on January 31, 2014, 06:23:45 AM

Title: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: rpki on January 31, 2014, 06:23:45 AM
Hi,
I followed these steps. I also resetted my iPod using iTunes.
http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation/iPodClassic/UMSboot
I see the UMSBoot volume.
I copied installer-ipodclassic-r859-20120102.ubi to that folder.
Eject the drive.
Nothing.
Tried unplugging, replugging, rebooting, also copying bootstrap-ipodclassic-r859-20120102.dfu to the folder. Nothing. I never see the EmCORE menu.
Can someone help me?
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: rpki on February 01, 2014, 08:03:18 AM
Ha I fixed it.
Installed XP in a virtual machine under VMware and the steps worked fine. Now running Rockbox.
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 10, 2014, 10:07:31 AM
Hi there,

I hope anyone reads this although the thread is already some months old. My problem is just SO similar to rpki's, it wouldn't make sense to open a new thread.
So this is the thing: I bought myself a used iPod Classic 160 GB (6G) because I needed the storage space.
I have been using Rockbox on several devices already, so it was clear I would get Rockbox for the iPod as well. However... I didn't get it to work.

Just like rpki did, I followed the instructions for EMCore, up to copying installer-ipodclassic-r859-20120102.ubi to the UMSBoot volume. I get an error message stating that there is some "problem with the attached device", I eject it... and nothing happens. The iPod stays stuck, just showing the Apple logo and a black column on the left side. Only "resetting" the iPod causes something to happen: the original iPod firmware is being started.
Rpki solved the problem using XP in a virtual machine. The problem is: my operating system IS already Windows XP. I guess trying the virtual machine wouldn't make much sense then?
@Rpki: Do you know whether you have an iPod Classic 6G or 7G? Might that make a difference?
I heard about earlier iPod Classic 6G models simply not being compatible because of their IDE hard disk (not a SATA one). Could that be the issue here? Is there any way for me to find out which HDD I have, except for opening the iPod?

I would be REALLY thankful if anyone could help here.

Best,

RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 10, 2014, 11:02:41 PM
Just like rpki did, I followed the instructions for EMCore, up to copying installer-ipodclassic-r859-20120102.ubi to the UMSBoot volume. I get an error message stating that there is some "problem with the attached device"

This, rather hilariously, actually means that (up until that point) everything went as intended.

It would actually be a problem if you *didn't* see this error.


I eject it... and nothing happens. The iPod stays stuck, just showing the Apple logo and a black column on the left side. Only "resetting" the iPod causes something to happen: the original iPod firmware is being started.

This points to the method you are using to eject the device.

If you are just pulling the cable, don't.
If you are using the "Safely remove" icon from the system tray, don't.

Eject from the device manager or My Computer (right click, eject), instead. There's a slight technical difference between eject and safe eject that makes the world of difference in this case.


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 11, 2014, 09:14:47 AM
Thank you so much for pointing this out, [Saint]!
I had no idea what was actually meant by "ejecting" the device. What I always did was "safely remove" the device via the system tray icon.
Now I know what I'm going to try next, which is ejecting it via the Device Manager!

Thanks ever so much,
RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 13, 2014, 12:17:33 PM
Hi again [Saint]!

That was really it...you really managed to find the cause of the problem! I ejected the device from the Explorer menu (as it is described in the EMCore installation...I cannot believe I didn't see that in the first place...), and tadaa! The EMCore Installer starts, asking me to continue. I go ahead and end up in the menu (on the iPod) where I can select Rockbox. It goes on, and the USB cable is finally shown on the screen.
In the EMCore installation, it says "follow the instructions on the screen". I don't know if that's supposed to happen, but my computer (Win XP) showed the USB tray icon popping up quite a lot of times...until finally a window pops up, asking me to install "EMCOre debugger" driver. I click yes....and it tells me the installation failed. I guess that is NOT supposed to happen.
I continued anyway, starting Rockbox utility. There, I cannot go anywhere. When I try to select the iPod, it tells me "Mounting point inaccessible" or something like that. The iPod also doesn't show up in the Explorer.
Do you (or somebody else) have ANY idead what I could do now?
If everything fails....can I actually get back to the original iPod firmware? Or are chances high that I wrecked it totally now?

Thanks in advance for any help,
RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 13, 2014, 01:31:29 PM
Update:
I'm REALLY starting to notice that the installation of RockBox on an iPod Classic is a strong case of "the devil is in the detail".
I got at least a small step further, however I still cannot get it working. Maybe this is going to help anyway, as I noticed some things:
1) Obviously the "Emcore Debugger" thing is not important after all, or at least not the cause of my problems. 
2) The reason for all this trouble seems to be the "Apple Mobile Device" driver. It says in the EMcore wizard that the process has to be killed in task manager. Which I did. What I did NOT notice at first, is that this process is being started automatically every half a minute or so! So what I tried is this: Start the boot menu on my ipod, select Rockbox, and wait for all the error messages to disappear. Rockbox starts up (or what I guess to be the fallback image with tiny letters and no colors). Then I opened the task manager on my computer, killing the Apple Mobile Device process. THEN I connected the iPod again, also opening Rockbox utility on my computer.
NOW the mounting point is accepted. The furthest I got was the menu where I can select what I want installed with Rockbox (fonts, themes....). However, then, at the latest, the Apple Mobile Device driver would be started again, and before I could kill it, the installation process would mess up once again, complaining about the wrong mounting point.
My last idea was to prevent Apple Mobile Device from starting in the first place. I opened msconfig and removed the tick next to the process. After the required system restart, I tried everything again. It still didn't work, although the Apple Mobile Driver was not started. The "iPod Classic" would show up at mounting point "G:" for about 5 seconds, and then disappear again completely. Thus, I still could not go ahead with the installation of Rockbox.
I hope this could at least clear up the problem a little!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 16, 2014, 04:05:02 PM
Has no one got any idea? Maybe some similar experience?
At the moment my iPod lies around unused, because it's almost worthless for me without RockBox :-(
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 17, 2014, 11:03:32 PM
Since iTunes is now absolutely irrelevant - why not simply remove it entirely?

Though I'm willing to bet that simply uninstalling the device drivers will have a similar effect.


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 18, 2014, 03:46:05 AM
Someone gave me the simple idea to check USB connectivity on a different machine, possibly without iTunes.
Luckily, I have a Windows 7 laptop in use, and there has never been any Apple software or any drivers of that kind on it.
So I connected the iPod to the laptop... and I was happy (at first), as it recognized the iPod and successfully installed the drivers. However, when I opened RB Utility to continue the installation...I received the same error as always. "Mounting point does not exist".
So either I forgot something really important during the installation of EMCore or the problem has to be the iPod itself. Otherwise I wouldn't get the same problem on 2 completely different computers, right? What about the rumor that some iPod Classics have an incompatible hard drive? Could that be it?
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 18, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
What about the rumor that some iPod Classics have an incompatible hard drive? Could that be it?

I have heard of no such thing, and simply put, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

Anyway...moving on.

Can you achieve a successful mount using the Rockbox fallback image embedded in emCORE?

emCORE main menu -> Tools -> Run Rockbox fallback image


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 19, 2014, 03:39:49 AM
Okay, I hope that "rumor" is just false then. I found the source again... but it is in German, so I guess posting the link wouldn't help. It says that RockBox only works with SATA HDDs and controllers, and that early iPod Classics use IDE drives, which don't work. However, I'm not an expert in those matters, so I cannot judge that whether that could be true or not.

The Rockbox fallback image, let me think... isn't hat what is automatically started when I select RB from the EMCore bootloader? It gives me all the error messages stating "no .rockbox directory" and "starting Rockbox fallback image", so I guess that's what I've been doing all this time, or not? And mounting from there didn't work, as I described. As long as I can't get RB utility to work, there's nothing else I could try, or is there?

Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: gevaerts on May 19, 2014, 04:14:14 AM
It says that RockBox only works with SATA HDDs and controllers, and that early iPod Classics use IDE drives, which don't work.

That's factually wrong. Early classics had CE-ATA drives, later one has IDE drives. None of them have SATA.

Rockbox works with both IDE and CE-ATA
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 19, 2014, 04:06:50 PM
THAT's definitely good to know. Thanks for that info, [Saint].
Because then, I have no reason to stop trying to get RockBox working. There MUST be a reason to solve this problem if the technical side cannot be the cause.
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 20, 2014, 04:01:16 AM
RockBoxNewB,

Come and see us over at the freemyipod project's support channel (https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=freemyipod-support) so that I may supply you with an updated emCORE installer which includes a 'Disk Mode' emCORE application, so that we can get you up and running.


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 20, 2014, 07:31:18 AM
Hi [St.], and thanks for your awesome, ongoing support for this.
I've never used IRC so far, so I hope I'm doing this right. I have now logged in as "RockBoxNewB" over there, and posted a message that I'm looking for you. I will try to keep my machine running for as long as possible today, hoping to catch you there at some point.
If there's something else I should do, just let me know.

Thanks in advance,
RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 20, 2014, 10:43:22 AM
Hi again [Saint],
while I was in the IRC, some member called "TheSeven" sent me a build with the EMCore disk mode you talked about (a .ubi file). So if that is just what you meant, you don't need to wait for me in the channel anymore ;-)

Best
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 20, 2014, 11:21:55 AM
Hi RockBoxNewB,

It seems you came and left in the short period that I was offline - not to worry.

I'm glad you got some support regardless, and I hope this updated binary allows you to mount your device and in turn make use of Rockbox on it.

It may interest you to know that the member you spoke with, TheSeven, is the man that made all this (emCORE, and Rockbox for iPod Classic) possible.


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 21, 2014, 10:10:46 AM
Hi [Saint],

I ended up being online in IRC for several hours...for a long period you were shown as "online", but I was unable to reach you. But that's no problem, of course.
Just to get you up to date: The build with the disk mode sounded like a great idea... but it didn't work. I didn't even get as far as I did with the official build... because the EMCore Installer was unable to format the drive. It always got stuck with the message "Formatting.." on the display. Therefore, I could not even TRY to use this build.
However, I eventually GOT a huge step further. I had the (desperate) idea to connect the iPod (with the standard EMCore build installed) to a THIRD PC. Miraculously...it worked! The iPod was recognized by the machine (also a Win 7 one), and I was able to run RockBox utility from there! I successfully installed the complete version of Rockbox. After the installation was completed, the Rockboxed iPod was also recognized by the Win XP machine! I managed to place music on it and everything. I hope it will CONTINUE to work in the future. On my WIn 7 laptop, however, the problem persists, even after completing the RB installation. It pops up as a USB drive for a few seconds, and disappears again.
TheSeven didn't mention he was the creator of all this! Although I didn't know that and although he couldn't help after all... I sent him many thanks, and now that I know this, he truly deserves them :-) Just like you do. I will DEFINITELY make a donation to the RB team. Your work has brought many Digital Audio Players to a new level!

RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 21, 2014, 10:39:11 AM
When I asked TheSeven what I can do to support what you do, he told me it would be helpful if I share my experiences and report bugs. As he mentioned that you actually own a RockBoxed iPod Classic, I'm going to do that here...because maybe those things are already known.
Until about 10 minutes ago, there was only ONE bug I could report, which is the EQ presets. I've only been using the presets so far, as they work very well for me. I selected "Browse EQ presets"... but nothing happened. I cannot open the menu.
Unfortunately, one MAJOR error has come up now, causing that I cannot play music from the iPod anymore. I was trying out different themes... when I suddenly received a "Prefetch abort" error, causing the entire system to crash. I restarted the iPod using MENU+SELECT... but even after resetting everything, whenever I try to play a music file, this error occurs. I don't know what to do :-(
The precise error codes vary slightly, this is an example:
"Prefetch abort at 709C2298
FSR 0xF7
(domain 15, fault 7)"
Is there ANYTHING I can do to get rid of this? Do I need to re-install RB using RB utility?

RBNB

Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 21, 2014, 05:47:54 PM
The EQ presets were removed because they were *very* resource intensive and taught people the exact opposite of how they should be using a full parametric EQ.

The removal of these files blends in with the fact that we cannot actually forcibly remove deprecated files from the device file system (I guess we could, but, we don't). This didn't actually affect you, though, because those EQ presets were never actually installed on your device (your initial install was never completed, and the successful installation no longer includes these files and hasn't for some time) if I have followed your situation closely enough.

So, think of this menu as the place you will find EQ presets if *you* create them.

The second issue you speak of sounds rather like a miss-match between the main binary and the codecs, this suspicion is backed up by the fact that it magically disappeared after you forcibly reinstalled Rockbox (I know you don't mention that here directly but I have been following your exploits over IRC).


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 22, 2014, 06:02:37 PM
Hi once again [Saint],

I just noticed I totally forgot to update this thread... so it relieves me that you were actually able to follow the discussion on IRC after all :-)
I'm also glad I asked you about the presets - my suspicion that those issues are already known was actually correct. If you say that it's actually "good" that those presets are not installed on my device, then so be it. No big deal.
So far, the full parametric EQ was too difficult and detailed for me to work with - but I guess I should get acquainted with it. Can I read up somewhere what those presets would actually "look like" in the full parametric EQ? What frequencies are emphasized and which are not, for example? "For starters", if you will ^^

So far, since the re-installation of RockBox, the system worked fine. And how it feels nice to have RB on the iPod, I can't say that often enough.

Anyway...is it actually even POSSIBLE that this major error was related to me browsing themes? I've now kept the "XPLORR" RB theme to prevent another crash (I knew this one worked and didn't cause the crash), but of course, I would like to try a different theme. What I need is the song rating displayed in the WPS, which only very few themes have. XPLoRR is supposed to show the rating... but ALL 5 stars are always shown. Even when a song has a totally different rating. I tried one of the "CNI" themes (because they even show ReplayGain info, which would be even more awesome), at least I WANTED to... but that was when the error came up, so I didn't dare try that again.
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 23, 2014, 09:37:19 PM
Ratings in Rockbox are a tricky thing that seems to surprise a few people.

Honestly, I'm not sure why we have our own implementation, it seems weird to me, but I don't use either one so the desire to do something about it isn't that great and I am only reminded of it very infrequently.

I am assuming you have your own ratings embedded in the file metadata?
Naturally, I would suppose you would like to see these ratings in the while playing screen?

Here's the thing - you can't.

You can only display Rockbox's *own* ratings system, which is tied to the Database, and that is all.

It might pay for you to have a read over our fine manual. We don't actually have a manual for the iPod Classic (due to its "unusable" release status), but we do have a manual for an incredibly similar device, the iPod Video (http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html). Nothing in this manual will be wrong, but it will mention a few features present in the iPod Video builds that are not (yet) present in the iPod Classic builds, namely recording, iPod accessory support, FM radio, etc.

Edited to add: I have seen some people work around this issue by exporting their ratings into the "comment" metadata field and having their theme display the comment instead of the rating. There are various ways this could be done and made pleasing to the eye, but ultimately its always going to be a hack-ish workaround.

But I guess you're starting to sense that rating (possibly several thousand) tracks (again) by hand, on the device, isn't really a non-hack-ish solution either...

Edited to add: I'm not implying you should "RTFM" because if you had, you would have known this...blah blah blah. I just realized now it sounded that way when I read it back to myself. I suggested it because it can tell you many /other/ things you may be curious about or unaware of. Sorry if that sounded harsh. :)


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 24, 2014, 05:10:27 AM
Hey [Saint],

no hard feelings, don't worry ;-) I still prefer "harsh(-sounding) feedback" to "no feedback at all". And after all, I understand why there was not much you could do but refer to the manual.
The thing is: I think you got me wrong, but that is simply due to the fact that I AM actually going an "unusual" way here ;-)
It is like this: Prior to me getting RockBox on my DAPs (wow, I'm just noticing that the iPod Classic is already my FOURTH RB'ed device: Sansa Clip plus, Cowon X5, iRiver H340 and now the iPod), I did not use any database, and no ratings for my songs. However, with my song list growing more and more, my own personal song rating was the most useful way to divide my collection. As there were no ratings from other software to import, I started the enormously tedious work of rating each and every song on the device (yeah, I know it sounds silly). Maybe you remember me asking questions here in the forum about how to export/import ratings between devices...this was due to the fact that I had to switch from the Cowon X5L (30GB) to the iRiver H340 (with an 80 GB HDD built in) as storage space was becoming too small (for the same reason, I bought the 160GB iPod), and I didn't want to start my rating work all over again.
I'm extremely proud to say that I managed to migrate my ratings from the H340 to the iPod (which I did not expect to work).
Now all I need is to DISPLAY those properly. So, in order to finally get to the point: The problem with the "stars" shown in the WPS of the XPloRR theme is probably just an error, as I AM using RB's own rating system as you can see. It's just that in XPLoRR, ANY rated song has ALL 5 stars displayed, and not 4 stars or 3 depending on my rating (I hope you get what I mean here ^^). On the RB theme site, you can see on the screenshots that the CNI themes are able to display e.g. 3,5 stars or 4... but as I said...it was when I tried those themes that I received the major prefetch error.
Sorry for this long text, I hope I was able to express myself more clearly now XD

RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: [Saint] on May 24, 2014, 07:37:41 PM
Ah. My mistake.

That probably just points to the theme being broken, then. Which isn't entirely surprising at all.
We can only check that a theme has "valid syntax", we can't actually check if it works as intended any more, or if it ever did in the first place.

As a rule, we do *try* not to introduce skin breaking changes, but, things happen. This coupled with the fact that most authors seem to upload a theme and them promptly forget about it and leave it to whither, can lead to situations like this.

If you are incredibly lucky, the author has left you enough breadcrumbs to follow on the theme page in order to contact them and inform them of the issue.

If you're *super* lucky, they might even still care about it.

Failing that, you could always just add ratings to another theme of your choice.

Something like:

Code: [Select]
%?rr<No Rating|1 Star|2 Stars|3 Stars|4 Stars|5 Stars|6 Stars|7 Stars|8 Stars|9 Stars|10 Stars>
Would display a simple, text only ratings implementation.


[Saint]
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 25, 2014, 04:50:40 AM
Oomph, I'm relieved I finally got my message across XD I see you know now what I actually tried to say ^^
I've now sacrificed myself (and my iPod) as a guinea pig for this. I reinstalled the CNI themes to determine whether I have been talking crap all this time or not. As it comes... I have NOT.
I selected one of the CNI themes on my iPod (it seems not to matter which one or whether you pick it in "browse themes" or just as a WPS)... and I think you know what happened then. Prefetch error. Thus, we can be very sure that these themes will not work (anymore) on the iPod Classic. Maybe we should add a note to that theme here on the website to prevent others from having similar troubles...
I have checked the theme overview... for both the CNI and the XPLoRR themes, the full names of the developers are indicated. But... how can I contact them? Maybe I'm just too stupid, but I cannot find any means of contacting them, as there are no email addresses or other things.
I thought I was clever when I exported database modifications prior to this experiment. However, I was not clever enough to export settings as well, so I had to take care of that all over again ._.
Anyway, someone over at the IRC told me that a complete forced re-installation of Rockbox was not necessary and that a simple "clearing the Rockbox configuration" from the EMCore tools menu would also do. And it did.
I remember having tried to "reprogram" another theme so that it includes the rating... and I didn't get it working. But I guess I'll try that again.
If I insert the line you indicated in your post, will that add stars as ratings on the WPS? If it did simply indicate the number (0-10), this would be even better! Could you paste the line I have to add in order to achieve this?

Thanks once again!

RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 25, 2014, 04:09:19 PM
Damn it... I swear I will NEVER EVER again try to modify Rockbox in any way without first asking you or one of the developers.
I have spent the last 2 hours trying to undo the damage caused  by my own curiosity.
First things first: I have tried some other themes... and ALL of them caused the Prefetch error! So far, XPLoRR is the only theme that works at all. As I didn't have much choice, I tried to modify the rating display just like you indicated with the XPLoRR theme then. I replaced the line originally written in the XPLoRR .wps file with the one you pasted, and it was fine. I wanted to experiment some more... because I felt instead of "1-10 stars" I could get the WPS to display words like "Instant classic" (for songs with 10 stars) or "Terrible" (for songs with only 1 star). All I did was modify the line like this:

%?rr<No Rating|Terrible|Bad|Quite Bad|Below Average|Average|Solid|Good|Great|Awesome|Instant Classic>

I thought this was not much of a change... but it caused a lot of damage! I received error after error, up to the point that the iPod seemed completely bricked...
What did I do wrong? I only replaced the words, so why was that so much different from what you indicated?

Best,
RBNB
Title: Re: iPod Classic 160GB can't get EmCore to install/run
Post by: RockBoxNewB on May 29, 2014, 12:48:31 PM
Hey [Saint]!

In case you read this: I would still highly estimate your feedback on my latest posts!
It would really help me understand how RockBox works.

Thanks in advance,
RBNB