Rockbox Technical Forums
Rockbox General => Rockbox General Discussion => Topic started by: djfonplaz on March 05, 2012, 08:25:23 AM
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I really like this project, RockBox is imo one of the best things ever done for mp3 players!
What I'd like to know is : I always see it for players with (more or less) 4 to 50gb, nothing more (as "stable").
I watch http://build.rockbox.org/ , but I don't see any players of 250gb with RockBox full support. Why this?
I'm looking for a great player with rockbox, but with more space (250gb, only for music; I don't mind about video/radio/apps)...
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Mostly because nobody really sells 250GB MP3 players, so it'd be difficult for Rockbox to support players that don't exist.
Other than the Archoses and the Gigabeat S, which have special caveats, all of the hard disk players we support can be pretty easily upgraded to the largest disk of the type that fits in the player and Rockbox will still work fine. e.g. 240GB disks are available which fit into the iPod Video and many people use these with Rockbox. Larger capacity 1.8" hard disks are expensive to come by...
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Uhm, but which ipod video do you mean as 240gb? Watching http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodPort I see only (at max) 1st Gen Classic (80GB / Thick 160GB), with is Unstable. What do you mean so? And only ipod can guaranteed this? (I'll avoid to buy Apple products)
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No iPod *comes with* a 240GB disk (at least, not from Apple) - people buy 240GB drives with the appropriate interface and replace them. Some websites sell already-modified players, also. You can do this on any MP3 player we support that has the right interface and physically has room for the drive in question. Any size should work on any player it's physically and electrically compatible with (except the Archoses and the Gigabeat S as I mentioned, which have issues). People upgrade iRivers, Gigabeat F's, other hard disk based devices we support.
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People upgrade iRivers, Gigabeat F's, other hard disk based devices we support.
Not to mention that people also upgrade HDD based players with flash memory. My main player is an Ipod Mini with 32GB flash memory :) Either way, I've never heard of *any* player being sold with more than 160GB. You need to build it yourself. As for flash memory upgrades see http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CFModGuide -- might be useful for HDD upgrades as well.
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Uhm...so, for example, on my Sansa Fuze which "flash memory" max can I put? I know SDXC 64gb works. What about the 128gb (I think, now, the max flash memory in the world)? Or there are somethings more?
Post Merge: March 06, 2012, 01:22:41 PM
Uhm...so you are saying :
1 - Buy an iRivers or Gigabeat F's (not Archos, because they have problem with HD upgrading). Can you show to me which are good for this kind of operation? Found Toshiba Gigabeat MEG-F40S 40 GB Digital Audio Player Silver, looks great? :)
2 - Putting a 250GB (or more? 320? 500?) Hard Drive (to be honest, for example, I don't find which kind of HD Toshiba F got. 2.5'?)
3 - Install rockbox
Right? Sorry my english is crap :)
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Uhm...so, for example, on my Sansa Fuze which "flash memory" max can I put? I know SDXC 64gb works. What about the 128gb (I think, now, the max flash memory in the world)? Or there are somethings more?
This is not related to modding a players memory -- the SD card is replacable, so any compatible card will do. SDXC has been discussed quite a few times, please search the forums.
2 - Putting a 250GB (or more? 320? 500?) Hard Drive (to be honest, for example, I don't find which kind of HD Toshiba F got. 2.5'?)
Most HDD based players use 1.8" drives. Some use smaller ones (like the Ipod Mini which uses a microdrive), and only the Archos players use larger ones (2.5"). Which means the problem will become getting a drive large enough for your taste and compatible with the connection of your player. Which also might be the reason for manufacturers not selling players with larger capacity ...
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Since I want 240gb, watching this http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HardDriveReplacement seems that I need a MK2431GAH model, with ZIF 40 connector.
Now, on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CFModGuide, seems that players with ZIF 40 connectors are :
iPod Video 5G
iPod Video 5.5G
Iriver H10 (large)
Gigabeat X series
Gigabeat S series
as far as I know, Gigabeat S have issues with this, so I think I'll avoid it. Also, seems that Iriver H10 (large) or Gigabeat X series is out of stock, also on amazon or ebay. Last choice seems to be iPod video, but also is hard to find... suggestions?
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It is possible to use a larger hard drive with a Gigabeat S, but not with the standard build. The original firmware doesn't support drives over 128GB; there is a fiddly workaround that involves splitting the disk into two partitions, one up to 128GB and one for the rest of the space, and it does work, but it requires a custom Rockbox build currently and it means your music is split across two different filesystems.
iPod Videos are not actually that hard to find; the thing is that a lot of them are sold as being iPod Classics, because people tend to assume that Classic means "all the non-mini/nano/etc ipods". With a good enough photo you can tell the difference quite easily: a Video has a flat, plastic front and a metal back, but an actual Classic is all metal and the edges on the front are curved. Note that there are "fat" and "thin" ipod videos, depending on which size drive they had originally, and I believe the 240GB disk only fits into a fat one. :)
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It is possible to use a larger hard drive with a Gigabeat S, but not with the standard build. The original firmware doesn't support drives over 128GB; there is a fiddly workaround that involves splitting the disk into two partitions, one up to 128GB and one for the rest of the space, and it does work, but it requires a custom Rockbox build currently and it means your music is split across two different filesystems.
iPod Videos are not actually that hard to find; the thing is that a lot of them are sold as being iPod Classics, because people tend to assume that Classic means "all the non-mini/nano/etc ipods". With a good enough photo you can tell the difference quite easily: a Video has a flat, plastic front and a metal back, but an actual Classic is all metal and the edges on the front are curved. Note that there are "fat" and "thin" ipod videos, depending on which size drive they had originally, and I believe the 240GB disk only fits into a fat one. :)
Right, but in fact I need a Ipod Video/Classic 5 or 5.5G, else rockbox won't work...
This is what you mean, right? http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Apple-iPod-classic-5th-Generation-White-30-GB-/78310474?_refkw=ipod+classic+5th+generation&_pcatid=39&_pcategid=293&LH_ItemCondition=1000&_dmpt=Other_MP3_Players
(hope I can post the links, else feel free to remove it :)). Still $279.95.... maybe can I bet on a less HD one?
This also will be very nice http://www.amazon.com/Apple-classic-Silver-Generation-NEWEST/dp/B001F7AHY6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1331117331&sr=8-9 , but it's 7th generation, and rock box won't work... :(
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You can upgrade the other hard disk based ipods we support as well, they just may need a different kind of drive and may not be thick enough to fit the largest disk. The Classic port is in progress and a number of people are using it, so while we haven't released it as a supported device, Rockbox does work.
If I was shopping for a new Video, i'd be looking for miscategorised listings on ebay, probably ;)
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Well... so you are saying that any iPod Classic (5G, or 5.5G) is what you are calling "Video", right?
Than, this could be good! How can I say which is fat enough for hospitate a 240gb? Which "parameter" I need to look?
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Apple's official model names: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353
What they call "iPod (5th generation)" and "iPod (5th generation Late 2006)" are what people generally refer to as the ipod 5G and 5.5G, and were originally sold under the marketing banner of "iPod Video" (without distinguishing the two) as they were the first to support video.
The term "iPod Classic" did not exist until 6G, and we try and avoid describing the earlier models as Classics because Apple never have. What I was saying is that because *many other people* confuse these things, you may need to search for sales/auctions that claim to be an iPod Classic and then look at them closely to determine what model they really are.
The "fat" iPod Videos are the ones that originally had a 60GB or 80GB drive in them. The ones that originally had a 30GB drive are thinner and cannot accomodate all replacement drives.
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Just to chime in, I use an iPod Video (generation 5.5) with the 240GB drive installed. It was a very easy install once I got the case open, and the company I bought the 240GB HDD from also offered the deeper iPod backplate for a small extra cost, in case you only have a 30GB iPod.
I installed the new HDD, restored the iPod using iTunes and then installed Rockbox and never looked back. The storage is great, though the operation and boot times are a little sluggish.
Torne has given you all the other information I would have.
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Thank you for all infos! Kind of people...
Well, right now it is not clear which Hard Drive I should put on it (and maybe Serenity, which have one of 240gb, can help me).
In fact, on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HardDriveReplacement I don't see any HD of 240gb with ZIF 40 HDD (which iPod 5G/5.5G should support).
What kind of HD/Connector have you buyed?
I also think I won't buy a 30gb, but at least a 60gb, so I don't need any special cover/trick/workaround on building it.
P.S. @Serenity : what do you mean with "a little sluggish"? Is it so slow? Or just "a bit more slow" than original fw?
Post Merge: March 08, 2012, 04:19:14 AM
Interesting, I found this http://www.ebay.com/itm/iPod-Video-240GB-Hard-Drive-Upgrade-Kit-for-iPod-5-and-5-5-Toshiba-MK2431GAH-/140668302630?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item20c07bf526#ht_5152wt_1396
It says that I need also a battery? That kit looks great :)
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"Sluggish" means it takes about 15 seconds to boot from off, and the HDD reads and buffers for the next 30 seconds or so, making menu items and the file tree load slowly--a second or two between pressing a button and getting a result. Once it has been playing for a minute, it's fine. File transfer from my computer averages only 3MB/second, but I mainly got it for massive storage so I don't mind the tradeoff. It is noticeably slower than the original firmware.
I got my HDD fro www.rapidrepair.com, but your eBay link looks like the same thing. I just bought the HDD with no kit and used the original drive cable when I installed, but if you don't have the nylon iPod easy-open tools, that kit you linked to would be the one to buy. Getting the iPod open is the hard part. :)
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I would add one thing regarding the 240 gig hard drive: if you use the database functionality within Rockbox, it can take a v.e.r.y...l.o.n.g...t.i.m.e to build, especially if the hard drive is anywhere near full.
Suggest that you have external power applied (battery charging) for the entire operation. this applies to the first time you build the database.
my observations & suggestions only. YMMV
Todd
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Thanks, but not, I don't use database function :)
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Well, I found a good used Apple iPod Video 30 GB Black (5th Generation), and the Apricorn's upgrade kit for 120USd. I think I'll buy them. What I miss is the fat cover : where can I find it? Would be good take front-back (black)...
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"Sluggish" means it takes about 15 seconds to boot from off, and the HDD reads and buffers for the next 30 seconds or so, making menu items and the file tree load slowly--a second or two between pressing a button and getting a result.
Also without using Database fuction? (on RockBox, I mean)
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Loading the directory cache in the background can take a very long time on a large drive, because the time required is dependent on the number of files/directories present on the device, and a large drive is likely to contain more files. This has nothing to do with the database. You can disable the directory cache but that will make *all* operations that need to look at the disk slower instead.
It shouldn't impact actual boot time that I know of, however. If you have a very old build without font cache fixes, and/or if you still have a build that's been manually patched to support larger physical sectors (this is no longer necessary), then it might be slow, because we used to hit some nasty pathological cases while loading fonts on drives with big sectors, but this shouldn't be the case any more.
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You are not mentioning the Iriver H3xx series.
My H340 is using a 128GB Hard disk and it has been confirmed it works with 240Gb drive.
You need to use a cheap CE 50 pin to ZIF 40 adaptor.
Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZIF-CE-1-8-to-1-8-50-Pin-Adapter-for-Hitachi-Toshiba-/390401372850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae5bc32b2
Since I want 240gb, watching this http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HardDriveReplacement seems that I need a MK2431GAH model, with ZIF 40 connector.
Now, on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CFModGuide, seems that players with ZIF 40 connectors are :
iPod Video 5G
iPod Video 5.5G
Iriver H10 (large)
Gigabeat X series
Gigabeat S series
as far as I know, Gigabeat S have issues with this, so I think I'll avoid it. Also, seems that Iriver H10 (large) or Gigabeat X series is out of stock, also on amazon or ebay. Last choice seems to be iPod video, but also is hard to find... suggestions?
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"Sluggish" means it takes about 15 seconds to boot from off, and the HDD reads and buffers for the next 30 seconds or so, making menu items and the file tree load slowly--a second or two between pressing a button and getting a result. Once it has been playing for a minute, it's fine. File transfer from my computer averages only 3MB/second, but I mainly got it for massive storage so I don't mind the tradeoff. It is noticeably slower than the original firmware.
Just got it (without Update Kit), and with 55GB Full the opening is quickly, without any slow time. Also on browse use the player.
And I can add 8000+ songs on playlist (random) as well (yeah, it got a bit, but it will do only once).
So, I don't think the 240gb will slowering the ipod so much? :O
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for the last few years i've been using my jbr20 recorder V1 with a 250gb hard drive.
good as gold, excellent sound quality, cheap as chips.
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The details of the contents indicate that a 850mah battery is included with the kit.
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These fake messages about new replies are very annoying :(
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They aren't fake messages, they are caused by spam which is then removed.
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I don't know why my iPod is slow; maybe I got a remanufactured 80GB 5.5 with the 30GB mainboard. I never use Database, and my Rockbox build is up to date, so it's anybody's guess why. I'm happy yours sounds quick enough, and for me, I just like the storage. :)