Rockbox Technical Forums
Support and General Use => Hardware => Topic started by: mbraner on March 04, 2008, 02:46:02 PM
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The hard drive in a friend's Archos Jukebox Recorder (v1 - 6GB) died, so I thought it would be a good time to try replacing it with a solid-state storage device. I got an IDE-CF adapter, this model:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200154
(which I actually got here - seems to be the same model, although they got the picture wrong:
http://www.amazon.com/Compact-Flash-Adapter-Ide-44PIN/dp/B0013FX4KY )
and plugged a 2G compact flash card into it
http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-2-GB-CompactFlash-Card/dp/B000GC57E6
This combo works as an external drive if I connect it to a PC via a USB-IDE adapter. But when I put it into the Archos Jukebox, it does not recognize the "drive". It hangs in the booting (at the 4-dots stage), or (if I plug it into the PC with a USB cable) shows the USB image but goes no further (on either the Archos or the PC). Sometimes, after a little while, I get an error message on the Archos: HD register error. I tried with the IDE adapter jumpered as master and as slave, the only difference was that the LED on it lit as slave but not as master, and the register error seemed a bit different:
-------- as master --------
HD register error
SC1 ( 85) 85
SN1 (170) 1
SC2 (170) 170
SN2 ( 85) 85
---------------------------
-------- as slave --------
HD register error
SC1 ( 85) 174
SN1 (170) 174
SC2 (170) 255
SN2 ( 85) 255
---------------------------
(It works via the USB adapter if jumpered as master, not as slave.)
The CF card came formatted as FAT (not FAT32 - surprising for a 2G card? 32K clusters), after it didn't work in the Archos I reformatted it as FAT32 but that did not help.
I also wondered if I have plugged it into the IDE connector in the correct orientation, as there is no "key" on the Archos, nor any mark of which is "pin 1". From the HDD docs it seems that pin 1 is towards the digital-I/O jack?
I've found only one short reference in the archives here to doing this sort of conversion of the Jukebox to solid-state storage, and that seemed to say it worked. Perhaps there was more discussion of such - pointers welcome!
I also have an Archos Jukebox Recorder 20G USB2 model which I was planning to do the same conversion to (with a larger CF card) - is it any different in its compatibility with such an adapter?
Thanks for any leads.
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Tried two different CF cards, an another Jukebox (20MB USB2 model), nothing works. The two CF cards in the second JB gave different behaviors: one got stuck on 4 dots in the booting, the other proceeded after some seconds to an error message: "ATA error: -80, press "on" to debug". These IDE/CF adaptors are passive rewiring jobs, the ATA emulation is really inside the CF card, perhaps that's why the different behavior - but that also perhaps means that other brand adaptors won't work any better? Would other brand CD cards help? Has this approach worked for anybody?
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Success - sort of!
Tried one more CF card, a rather old Viking 128MB. It works! At first it showed
a strange "empty" disk display (but no error message) in the Archos firmware, and connecting the USB interface to a PC did not show up as a drive on the PC. After putting Rockbox on the CF card (via a USB card reader, not the Archos JBR), the same card in the JBR flashed "Rockbox" briefly (i.e., it must have read the Rockbox software off the CF card!) but then the display said: "no partition found, plug in USB and fix it". But USB connection still did not work. Put back
the CF card back in card reader, and reformatted as FAT32 (rather than FAT=FAT16). It now fully works in the JBR! Alas with 128MB that not very useful. But it seems that some CF cards are more compatible than others.
Some googling found that CF cards are supposed to operate in 3 different modes:
1) PC Card I/O Mode,
2) PC Card Memory Mode (CF Mode), and
3) True IDE Mode (Fixed Mode).
But perhaps some cards do not provide all those modes - their main use these days is for high-end digital cameras, perhaps those are less stringent.
So the question is, which current larger-capacity CF cards (2GB or more) provide true IDE compatibility and would work in the Archos JBR?
One of the CF cards that did NOT work for me was a 2G Kingston:
http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-2-GB-CompactFlash-Card/dp/B000GC57E6
Neither did this 8G Transcend card work for me:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208340
Would this 16G RiData one work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820183190
(the page says "Conforms to the Compact Flash Association standard, Compatible with PC card standards and PC card ATA", and another page about the same card more explicitly says: "True IDE Mode compatible"
- http://www.meritline.com/ridata-16g-233x-cf-card.html )
Any other (perhaps less expensive, 2G-8G) CF cards out there that promise full IDE compatibility?
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I have no idea if this will work on an archos but you could check out this patch by Petur.
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8644
Good luck!
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More partial success:
I got hold of the 4GB version of the RiData Lightning Series card, which supposedly is "True IDE Mode compatible". It behaves as follows:
If Rockbox is not on the card, the Jukebox boots its original firmware and lists the two MP3 files I put on the card. It played one of them OK, hung on "starting" the other one but that may be a different problem.
If Rockbox is on the card, the booting gets to the point where "Rockbox" flashes very briefly on the screen, and then it says only this on the screen:
ATA error: -80
Press ON to debug
So it seems that the hardware works, is the remaining issue a software (Rockbox) rather than a hardware problem? I don't understand the posting above about a patch to Rockbox to make it work with a flash card - on a different hardware platform. I don't know how to use such a patch... Any chance for such a patch applied to a version of Rockbox compiled for the Archos Jukebox Recorder V1? What's the official way to request that such a fix be put into a future Rockbox build?
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One step closer, but...
Given that the patch mentioned above is labeled "closed", I was hoping it means that the current build has it included. So got today's build of Rockbox for this device (Archos JBR) and put it on the CF card.
The good news: Rockbox now boots all the way and plays the MP3s I put on the CF card (via card reader).
The bad news: When plugged into the PCs USB port, Rockbox shows the USB image, but the PC does not bring it up as a storage device. It doesn't even say "new hardware found". This is on Windows XP SP2, which normally recognizes the Jukebox right off. Going into the Device Manager, I see under "Other devices" a "USB Storage Adapter" that has a yellow exclamation mark on it. Its Properties show: "The drivers for this device are not installed". What's going on? Should I install the Archos drivers, the ones for Windows 98? Or can I point it to some generic USB storage device driver?
BTW I get the same behavior if I boot to the Archos firmware and plug in the USB cable.
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I believe the Archos uses a hardware USB<->ATA bridge that rockbox has no control over (except for enabling/disabling it). I would guess that this controller doesn't like your card.
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Well it's refused to fully work with 4 different brand CF cards thus far: 2 didn't work at all, and 2 read files off the card but don't connect via USB. Could it be that the specific IDE-CF adapter is the problem? Or perhaps this very old (6GB) Archos JBR (firmware version 1.17) is the problem - would a newer one work better? (I have a 20GB USB2 model to try out, but should I bother taking it apart too?) Or perhaps the March 13 build of Rockbox is unstable?
Also I should report that I spoke too soon about it reading file OK. It actually displays an erratic behavior, sometimes booting into the original Archos firmware and ignoring Rockbox which is on the CF card - but reading songs off the card just fine, and sometimes it boots Rockbox and works for a while but eventually running into this message:
*PANIC*
Dir entry 8 in sector 1 is not free!
This has turned out a lot harder than I bargained for... I'm still hoping to hear from anybody else who has tried this?
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More experimental results:
Installed the old (Windows 98/2000) Archos USB drivers, on Windows XP. Â This made the old (6GB, v1.17) JBR, with compact flash card instead of HDD, show up on the PC as a drive, but it behaved erratically, giving error messages when trying to write files. Â Uninstalled it.
Put the same IDE/CF adapter and card in a 20GB, v1.28 firmware, USB2 Archos JBR v1. Â This seemed to boot and run Rockbox fine, and when plugged into a PC seemed to behave normally too. Â Wow!
Tentative conclusion: the flash card idea works for the later JBR but not the earlier one. Â But is this a hardware or a software issue? Â E.g., if I were to flash Rockbox into the Archos firmware, will it behave differently as far as compatibility with the CF card and the USB connection?
Added later: (now incorporated here - sorry for not following the rules earlier!)
Should also mention that another Rockbox Forums thread is discussing the CF compatibility issue (on other hardware, not Archos JBR):
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14524.0
Interesting that that thread also mentioned that the Transcend CF card was not compatible - that's fits my experience on the JBR. Â I'm having the current partial success with a Ridata Lightning Series card, and may try an A-Data next (good price on a 16G size).
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Added March 25:
Tried the 16GB A-Data "Speedy" CF card, which worked for many on other MP3 players, and it did NOT work on the Archos Jukebox. The firmware booting never completes, just hangs on 4 dots.
As I've said above, a Transcend 8GB didn't work either, but the RiData Lightning Series 4GB card worked, and now I've also tried the 16GB version of the same, and that worked too. So I can only recommend the RiData Lightning series for this purpose.
All that's in the 20GB USB2 version of the Jukebox. Tried putting a (known good) real hard drive in the broken 6GB USB1 Jukebox that started this effort, and it refuses to run: when I press the "on" button it spins the drive for a split second and then turns itself completely off. So it is possible that this specific Jukebox is broken in some way that both blew the original hard drive and damaged the main unit in a way that prevents it from working with either a hard drive or a CF card via the adapter. I can't tell for sure, don't have another such Jukebox to try.
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Please, be aware that the forum guidelines ask you to modify your post if nobody has responded. You've now posted three posts in a row without doing this, and have done this earlier in the thread too. If you haven't yet read the guidelines, they're posted in the announcements forum.
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Sorry to dig up an old thread, but have you made any progress on this?
I have an Archos Jukebox Recorder V2 20GB that I'd love to convert over to compact flash if there's any possibility of it actually working.
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I have an Archos Jukebox Recorder V2 20GB that I'd love to convert over to compact flash if there's any possibility of it actually working.
If anyone's still curious about replacing the Jukebox's original HD with compactflash I can report that a Rockbox-loaded Sandisk Extreme III 4GB CF works perfectly with an IDE adapter in my Jukebox Recorder 10. I checked the CF card in fdisk with my Linux box before plugging it into the Jukebox and noticed that it didn't have a standard partition table. I therefore created a new FAT32 partition table and reformatted just to be sure. I'm not sure if this was a necessary step but might be worth trying if all else fails. I've heard reports of 32Gb CF cards being used in iPods and see no reason why they shouldn't work with the ABJR too.
There is one caveat: The Jukebox's case is screwed directly into the original HD. The holes in the case itself don't have any thread so when the HD is replaced with a tiny CF adaptor there's nothing to hold everything together. It's probably not so hard for the dedicated tinkerer to find a way to overcome this structural problem though.
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Hello,
I replaced the HD of my blue AJB Recorder with an 4GB transcend CF Card. It works fine. I only have problems charging the betteries full. If i only charge 2h or so everthing works fine but if i charge full i have no Rockbox loading anymore. Booting is then the original firmware I don't want to have. The data is still on the cf. But I also had problem of lost date too. What's wrong? A Software Problem (something with battery)? Or could the problem be a too "hot" Jukebox by charging so long? I heard CF cards don't like it hot (wikipedia). I even charge the Jukebox on a quite cold place or on a piece of metal! The Jukebox works fine again by installing Rockbox new.
How did you connect the CF-Adapter? Mine was a bit too big, I built a cable for it to have about 1mm more to the circuit board. The problem with srews is "easy" to solve - I disassembled an old 2.5 HD (Torx-Bits were necessary) and cut out a piece of it. Then I had an "U"-form with a cap where the CF-Card finds its place - much work but maybe the cheapest solution!
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Hello,
I replaced the HD of my blue AJB Recorder with an 4GB transcend CF Card. It works fine. I only have problems charging the betteries full. If i only charge 2h or so everthing works fine but if i charge full i have no Rockbox loading anymore. Booting is then the original firmware I don't want to have. The data is still on the cf. But I also had problem of lost date too. What's wrong? A Software Problem (something with battery)? Or could the problem be a too "hot" Jukebox by charging so long? I heard CF cards don't like it hot (wikipedia). I even charge the Jukebox on a quite cold place or on a piece of metal! The Jukebox works fine again by installing Rockbox new.
How did you connect the CF-Adapter? Mine was a bit too big, I built a cable for it to have about 1mm more to the circuit board. The problem with srews is "easy" to solve - I disassembled an old 2.5 HD (Torx-Bits were necessary) and cut out a piece of it. Then I had an "U"-form with a cap where the CF-Card finds its place - much work but maybe the cheapest solution!
I had no problems running the CF-enabled Jukebox with fully charged batteries or plugged into the AC adapter for several hours. I wouldn't have thought that the CF card would get hot enough to cause data loss but maybe some of them are more sensitive than others. I used a Sintech STCI4401 IDE-CF adapter, which fits fine without cable entensions. Cutting up an old HD is an interesting solution to the case problem. I was thinking of building a simple wooden framework. I believe it's also possible to get CF-adapters with screw holes in the right places. Although it's an interesting hack, I'm not sure that there's much practical benefit to the CF modification unless you need to record from the built in microphone without picking up the HD noise. You get much more storage/$ with a 127GB HD and the battery lifetime doesn't seem to be much different.
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Now I tried a new cable-adapter - the empty batteries were loading the whole night. It seems to work, no problems anymore. Maybe I soldered a shortcut or something. A wooden framework was my first thought too, worth to try out. I have sawn with a "Dremel", this makes much dust. But my Adapter from china (which looks like the Sintech STCI4401 IDE-CF) will not go straight in the Jukebox, no chance!! An other (earlier/later)model?! Of course a HD ist cheaper, but I always wantet to have the perfect Mp3-Player ::) with standard-batteries und without mechanical HD. Has someone experience with recording (line-in,spdif, mic.) on CF-card? It works with the Transcend card but I had other cards on other Archos Players which could be read but not written (also not possible to create a folder). By the way, if I record music from my Sat-Receiver (Spdif) after about 4 hours I have corrupt files on the Jukebox - I work with the File-Split Option. It's always, with CF or with HD. And that's strange, it seems to have someting to do with the Volume (with SPDIF ???) it works better with lower Volume. I better take my Iriver h120 for this ;-)
sry 4 bad english..
!!!!! To all who want to disassemble a 2,5 HD - be carefull, don't bend the plate(s). It's made of glass, not metal !!!!!
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A bit off-topic for this thread but:
By the way, if I record music from my Sat-Receiver (Spdif) after about 4 hours I have corrupt files on the Jukebox - I work with the File-Split Option. It's always, with CF or with HD. And that's strange, it seems to have someting to do with the Volume (with SPDIF ???) it works better with lower Volume.
This is a known bug in the encoder chip's firmware so to speak and it doesn't have to do with SPDIF as it also happens with long recordings on my OndioFM which doesn't have SPDIF. There are (were) plans how to work around this problem in software (Rockbox) but nothing happened for years and specific development for these targets has stalled a bit so I wouldn't hold my breath...
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Hello,
the Jukebox Recorder with CF is still working - I tried it on my PC on USB without batteries... and it woked :-) That's perfect because I could also use it on USB on a car radio! 8) By the way I got a new CF adapter where the pins are not in an angle, there is one row of pins on the upper and the other row on the unter side of the circuit board - fits perfect!
I tried on an other Jukebox Recorder to modify (same adapter, same CF-Card, also USB 2.0) but no power over USB!!!!! ??? The Jukebox works fine with batteries and installed Rockbox on CF.
What's the difference between this Jukeboxes, does it depend on manufacturing year ??
Ich just googled and found something about DMA mode on CF-Adapters. Has it something to do with this??? I think not but.... maybe!!?!?
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Hello all !
3 years later ... I did the upgrade !
-> Archos Jukebox Recorder 20 V1 / SN : 022107794
-> Rockbox 3.13
-> Hardware Info : ROM: 1.28 / Mask: 0x0302 / Flash: M=BF D=D6 / Boot ROM: V1
CF Card : Kingston CF/32GB-U2 Carte CompactFlash Ultimate 266x - 32 Go
(Amazon.fr : http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002RCQ0SU (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002RCQ0SU))
IDE -> Compact Flash adapter : Dexlan Adaptateur SSD IDE pour 2 Compact Flash Maitre et Esclave 2.5"
(Amazon.fr : http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002QWDKFW (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002QWDKFW))
There is also a Dexlan adapter with only one Master slot.
1- Format the CF card in FAT-32 using a CF card USB adapter (I'm using a Mac)
2- Copy the existing files of the JBR 20 to the CF card (including the hidden folders and files, I had to make it visible with Onyx utility software)
3- Disassemble the JBR 20, take out the HDD (Hitachi DK23DA-20F / SN ZGVB11MJ2U)
4- Install the CF card in the adapter (I used the Master slot, the Slave is working also)
5- Install the adapter and reassemble the JBR
6- Boot ... And it works perfectly, without having to deal with "UDMA" considerations or "fixed mode" and so on.
First attempt : perfect, and with power over USB !
See you !
VoronoV (from France)
Ps : I love you Rockbox team !