Rockbox Technical Forums

Third Party => Repairing and Upgrading Rockbox Capable Players => Topic started by: HigherGround on May 05, 2010, 11:11:59 AM

Title: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 05, 2010, 11:11:59 AM
This is a very weird problem, I have Rockbox installed on my iPod Photo 4G. Today I replaced the battery as the old one wasn't performing as well anymore, but now when I boot it, the ipod shows the folder icon (and once or twice the sad face icon), and when I try to put it in emergency disk mode and connect it to the computer, It'll go to the emergency disk mode screen for about 30 seconds then reboot. I tried putting in another spare hard drive I have with the same result, and putting the old battery back in with the same result. I've also booted into apple's diagnostic mode (pressing [<< and Select at the same time while its rebooting on the apple screen) and done various checks, SDRAM, etc, the only thing which seems amiss is that it's not reporting a model name for Hard drive info, and reporting a capacity of 8gb. I know both the hard drives are fine. What did I break and can I fix it?

This was supposed to be a gift for my sister :( bought the ipod from ebay and refurbished it and rockboxed it, it was working perfectly until i changed the battery! Any help is much appreciated,

Cheers,

Matt
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: yapper on May 05, 2010, 12:20:14 PM
Check the hard drive cable to make sure it isn't damaged.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 05, 2010, 01:32:24 PM
It doesn't look damaged, any particular indication i should be looking for? If it's damaged, can replace the connector?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: yapper on May 05, 2010, 08:47:43 PM
Look for it being cracked or displaced from the connectors. Check for any other connectors you may have dislodged while you were swapping the battery.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 06, 2010, 08:17:28 AM
It doesn't look cracked, I disconnected it and reconnected it to make sure it was properly connected. I also can't see any other dislodged or abnormal connections. Could the logic board be damaged then? I've seen some on sale for 20 pounds, which isn't too bad a price.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: yapper on May 06, 2010, 12:21:56 PM
If you have tried two drives and two batteries with the same results, then the logic board would be a good next guess.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 06, 2010, 05:51:09 PM
Iam having a similar result with my ipod video, you may want to take a look at my thread. My problem seems to have come out of nowhere... I may have cancelled a format or something but even then, is that enough to ruin the ipod for life?? Surely, it cant be. I need itunes to recognize my ipod for long enough bfore it restarts so I may restore it. Is it true that the hard drive zif cable may be the culprit?? They are only a few bucks from ebay so I don't see why it'd hurt to try...

Its also worth noting that in my diagnostic mode as well when i go to IO / HardDrive the only two options that I have are HDSpecs and HDSmartData... there is no other checks I may do and half the time these checks freeze my ipod.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing batt
Post by: torne on May 06, 2010, 06:54:06 PM
As far as we know, it is impossible to permanently break an iPod by doing anything in software. No amount of writing bad data to the hard drive should ever stop he emergency disk mode from working to restore from iTunes.

So, it's very safe to assume you have some kind of hardware problem. If the iPod shuts off immediately on entering disk mode, a likely cause is an old/broken battery which cannot provide enough power to spin up the drive. Even a newly purchased battery is not necessarily okay, since you probably don't know how long it sat on a shelf before you bought it; lithium ion batteries lose capacity constantly once they come off the production line, even if they are not used at all.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 06, 2010, 08:19:41 PM
It doesnt shut off immediately, when plugged in in disk mode-- at least for me-- the battery appears to be full. It seems the ipod restarts and goes back to the apple around the same time each time. This is a "newer" battery I bought from ebay within the past couple months. Could it be a lemon?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 06, 2010, 08:29:23 PM
The issue is that it was actually working fine before I attempted to change the battery, getting about 5 - 6 hours worth, which isn't ideal as my sister does a lot of travelling and I was going to give this to her. That's why I changed the battery. For this reason I think I may have damaged the connector or the logic board when changing the battery. When I'm in diagnostic mode, with either hard drive, I don't get any information on HDSpec (the ipod freezes when choosing this option) and the HDRW test fails with message "HDD R/W fail". The first battery was still good, just not optimal.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 07, 2010, 12:58:20 AM
I just ordered a new hard drive cable + new hard drive + new battery.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing batt
Post by: torne on May 07, 2010, 05:46:39 AM
It doesnt shut off immediately, when plugged in in disk mode-- at least for me-- the battery appears to be full. It seems the ipod restarts and goes back to the apple around the same time each time. This is a "newer" battery I bought from ebay within the past couple months. Could it be a lemon?
If you hold it in your hand you can probably feel it start to spin up just as it resets. And yes, eBay is not a reliable source for *anything* which can have invisible defects... a lot of stores, online or in real life, have stocks of batteries for all kinds of consumer products and many of them will continue to sell them no matter how long they have been in the warehouse. :( Lipoly battery packs don't often have a manufacturing date printed on them anywhere, so it's hard to tell.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 07, 2010, 10:31:12 AM
I think can confirm that its not the battery. If I disconnect the battery completely and plug the ipod in so that its powered purely from the mains, and It boots to the apple logo and then shows the folder error icon. How conclusive is this?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: torne on May 07, 2010, 11:48:58 AM
Er, doesn't that prove it *is* the battery, just not for the reason I guessed? Can you get to emergency disk mode without the battery connected, and then restore with itunes? i.e. get it back to a functional state without the battery, and then see what happens if you reconnect the battery after that?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 07, 2010, 11:59:33 AM
Er, doesn't that prove it *is* the battery, just not for the reason I guessed? Can you get to emergency disk mode without the battery connected, and then restore with itunes? i.e. get it back to a functional state without the battery, and then see what happens if you reconnect the battery after that?
I will try this later tonight. If it doesn't end up being the hard drive, at least I'll have an upgraded 120 gb-- drive for years to come.. and bought a 1.8" zif enclosure for a few bucks for the 80gb drive so if it still works ill have a handy dandy little external drive.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 07, 2010, 12:10:45 PM
Er, doesn't that prove it *is* the battery, just not for the reason I guessed? Can you get to emergency disk mode without the battery connected, and then restore with itunes? i.e. get it back to a functional state without the battery, and then see what happens if you reconnect the battery after that?
It doesn't prove that it's the battery, because otherwise the ipod would have booted normally without the battery. If I put it in disk mode without the battery the ipod still reboots itself about 15 to 20 seconds afterwards. My disks shouldn't even need restoring anyway.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: torne on May 07, 2010, 12:32:49 PM
Sorry; I misunderstood what was happening. If it can't mount the disk successfully with the battery out, and doesn't boot at all with the battery *in*, then I can only assume you broke the logic board somehow? It's very hard to say :)
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 07, 2010, 09:01:04 PM
unplugging the battery and plugging in the ipod does nothing, I am stuck at the please wait very low battery screen with a revolving wheel... does this imply that my problem isnt the battery and possibly not even the hard drive?? note: the ipod wasn't spinning at all when i plugged it in via usb but sans battery..

edit: I took a closer look at my logic board. I bought this board as a REPLACEMENT listed as "100% functioning" or my money back.. well it worked for a couple months..

is this the culprit of my problems?? there is a little black pool of something around what appears to be a "heatsink" of some type (sorry I have no idea what it actually is)
http://imgur.com/khMa6&am...8htA7&LKxBY&Qdarg

please take a look and chime in... if this did happen, is it possible that Software could have in fact caused this?? Did something over heat?

edit 2: took it apart, reseated the HD cable FIRMLY disk mode entered very fast, restore option came up.. success... I want to kill someone with a smile on my face
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 08, 2010, 12:57:47 AM
unplugging the battery and plugging in the ipod does nothing, I am stuck at the please wait very low battery screen with a revolving wheel... does this imply that my problem isnt the battery and possibly not even the hard drive?? note: the ipod wasn't spinning at all when i plugged it in via usb but sans battery..

edit: I took a closer look at my logic board. I bought this board as a REPLACEMENT listed as "100% functioning" or my money back.. well it worked for a couple months..

is this the culprit of my problems?? there is a little black pool of something around what appears to be a "heatsink" of some type (sorry I have no idea what it actually is)
http://imgur.com/khMa6&8htA7&LKxBY&Qdarg

please take a look and chime in... if this did happen, is it possible that Software could have in fact caused this?? Did something over heat?

edit 2: took it apart, reseated the HD cable FIRMLY disk mode entered very fast, restore option came up.. success... I want to kill someone with a smile on my face
Congratulations! You must feel so relieved lol. I am yet to have any luck, and I've taken mine apart countless times! I've ordered a new connector, it was quite cheap. If that doesn't work I'll buy a new board, and if that doesn't work I'll probably give up and sell it on ebay as faulty... :(
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 08, 2010, 01:00:32 AM
well the ipod seems to be functioning normally but that doesn't mean it can withstand prolonged periods of time... we'll see and i'll definitely report back. did my ipods symptoms match those of yours for the most part though?? I think it's odd both of our ipods had similar problems while in disk mode.. have u ever gotten itunes open long enough for yours to restore even partially yet???
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 08, 2010, 01:04:13 AM
Nope, It always shuts off after about 15 seconds. I think I actually mine is actually damaged somehow. Btw I really like that picture, it's almost beautiful, in a weird kind of way ...
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 10, 2010, 07:08:36 PM
problem came back lol and its definitely due to some type of contact or short because I can get the ipod to boot to rockbox quickly when it does work. i dont know how or what i did but it happens after reassembly but none of the steps i took make sense as to how I got it to work. No idea.. once again.. got it to boot to rock box... close the case, snap... go to Files in rockbox.. ipod doesnt respond, restart... connect to itunes to restore. wtffff. It stops working when i put it back together!!!
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 11, 2010, 08:08:19 AM
Just received the new connector. Replaced it with he old hard drive connector and presto, it works again! Sorry to hear about yours :( Maybe the act of closing it loosens the connector because some of the parts are a bit out of place?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: torne on May 11, 2010, 09:01:21 AM
Is your battery or hard drive perhaps slightly thicker than the stock ones, causing something to get pressed on too hard when you close the case?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 11, 2010, 12:57:09 PM
Well I have two replacements on hand that I can use/test.. and I have an 80gb hard drive so I have the bigger backing plate. What could the battery possibly press against that causes it to reboot though?? The LCD screen? I did notice that the little blue rubber bumpers were having a hard time sitting in place but that seemed normal to me. Plus I tried plugging this in with the battery detached and ipod disassembled (meaning it was pressing up against nothing at all) and I still got the sad ipod face. Is that normal?
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: torne on May 11, 2010, 04:02:33 PM
I've never taken mine apart, so I'm afraid I don't know.
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: kvnknrd on May 11, 2010, 06:10:31 PM
what kind of "connector" did you buy?

this is the strangest thing. If I literally just clip open one side of the ipod (the right side, when looking at it face on) the ipod will power up fine and boot into both OS's. but I when i close the ipod it stops working. It's so baffling and stupid that I have to laugh at all the problems this little thing has given me. What Gives and what is on the right side of the ipod that is giving me this problem???

http://tinypic.com/r/2eumszr/5
Title: Re: Ipod won't go past Apple screen and reboots in disk mode after changing battery
Post by: HigherGround on May 12, 2010, 12:29:43 PM
I bought this connector http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120462123701&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2476wt_941 your ipod would use a different connector as it has a ZIF drive. I watched the video, that is indeed a weird problem. I don't know what the 5th den ipod looks like inside so I don't know what could be causing it, there must be something on the right side which is putting too much pressure on another component causing it not to work properly... This requires some thorough investigation.