Rockbox Technical Forums

Support and General Use => Theming and Appearance Customization => Topic started by: Llorean on July 14, 2008, 09:06:08 PM

Title: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: Llorean on July 14, 2008, 09:06:08 PM
As many of you may be aware, we're working on trying to put together a 3.0 release again.

What I personally would like to see is that we include a small selection of themes for each target with the 3.0 download, so that people installing the "release" will have a few nice themes to choose from. Since this is my personal want, there's no guarantee this will happen, nor is there any plan for how (will they be in SVN, or just bundled in the .zip, or what).

But there are some key things that will need to be true no matter which way it might happen.

1) Your theme will need to work with SVN Rockbox.
2) Your theme will need to be released under a license that allows us to redistribute it. If we do include themes, we'll probably be picking them ourselves, and it will be much easier on our side if all themes come under the same license, so if you want to be extra sure you might consider the CC-by-SA license, which is popular. There is a good chance we'll frown on themes that have licenses disallowing modification and reuse.

So, while there's no guarantee we'll be including a selection of themes with 3.0, I'd very much like to, and even if we don't, you'll want your theme usable by 3.0 users, right? So here's the call to not only update your themes, but organize and clean the wiki pages they're on, because if we don't see your theme, easily spot a license, and easily spot that it's 3.0 ready, we can't decide it looks good enough to include.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: Hweb21 on July 17, 2008, 12:40:38 AM
"a small selection of themes for each target"

So the theme doesn't have to be ported on every target to be selected?
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: Llorean on July 17, 2008, 01:07:43 AM
The default theme is, in my opinion, the only one that needs to be cross target.

Other than that, I don't see any problem with having a unique set of themes for each target.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: GodEater on July 17, 2008, 02:40:51 AM
I agree, I think everyone involved in creating the Cabbie V2 theme which is now Rockbox's default can attest to how difficult it is to make a theme look consistent across all our targets. We wanted it done to improve the users first experience of Rockbox, but I think there's a strong argument for target specific themes to form part of this release.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: shotofadds on July 17, 2008, 09:34:04 AM
2) Your theme will need to be released under a license that allows us to redistribute it.

I'd hope any released themes also have a license allowing future modification, in case of future WPS syntax changes, etc.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: Llorean on July 17, 2008, 09:37:28 AM
Well, the WPS syntax for 3.0 will never change since 3.0 will never change...
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: shotofadds on July 17, 2008, 11:38:36 AM
I think you know exactly what I meant. ;)

(ie. that it'd be desirable if we didn't have to throw out any 3.0-delivered themes if/when 3.x come out with a new WPS syntax)
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: karashata on July 17, 2008, 12:01:22 PM
Are we allowed to make recommendations or suggestions as to some themes we might like to see bundled for our various targets?  Or is it entirely up to the devs and what they'd like to bundle, if anything gets bundled?
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: (:@) on July 17, 2008, 01:25:39 PM
What about to include unifont into release 3.0, since the theme UniCatcher is included?
It's not obvious for a newbie that he also has to download and install unifont so that UniCatcher will look correctly. It will make it easier for someone who has songs in a non latin language and doesn't know english well.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: saanaito on July 17, 2008, 05:09:31 PM
I know it's asking a lot, but I would love to see at least a few of the most popular themes to be ported to the c200s by the 3.0 release. :)
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: Llorean on July 17, 2008, 07:22:40 PM
Strife89: Here's how it works: You do the porting, and we might include the themes.

(:@): Honestly, you should raise a bug report about that. There shouldn't be included themes missing fonts.

shotofadds: I don't see why the next release can't have different themes if their authors abandon them. It would be ideal if they're modifiable, but I don't think it should explicitly be a requirement, nor do I think it should be the responsibility of the release team to commit to keeping what may be dozens of themes forever up to date with releases.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: ZincAlloy on July 19, 2008, 05:02:36 AM
2) Your theme will need to be released under a license that allows us to redistribute it. If we do include themes, we'll probably be picking them ourselves, and it will be much easier on our side if all themes come under the same license, so if you want to be extra sure you might consider the CC-by-SA license, which is popular. There is a good chance we'll frown on themes that have licenses disallowing modification and reuse.

so CC-BY-NC-SA would be ok?
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: Llorean on July 19, 2008, 05:34:11 AM
Strictly speaking yes. But remember, the people who are likely  to be picking the themes are people who've chosen the GPL as their project license, and it allows Commercial use as long as that commercial use doesn't break the GPL terms. CC-BY-SA is closer to this than CC-BY-NC-SA. I'm not saying it would rule anything out, because there's no set rule yet, just saying what I think is most likely to be smiled upon.

Especially since CC-BY-NC-SA means that if someone wants to sell DAPs preloaded with Rockbox 3.0 on eBay or something, they have to go through the hassle of removing your theme on each install first. Which may be what you want, but a point may come up in debate that we wouldn't want themes restricting the ease of distribution of everything else.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: ZincAlloy on July 19, 2008, 06:04:26 AM
alright, I'll rerelease my themes under the CC-BY-SA license where possible.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: saanaito on July 19, 2008, 12:50:37 PM
Strife89: Here's how it works: You do the porting, and we might include the themes.

Well, I guess I'll start small - literally - and try a Nano theme or two. :)
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: soap on July 19, 2008, 01:30:17 PM
Strife89: Here's how it works: You do the porting, and we might include the themes.

Well, I guess I'll start small - literally - and try a Nano theme or two. :)
The Sansa C series has an even smaller screen  :D and is in desperate need of more WPSs.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: karashata on July 19, 2008, 01:57:54 PM
The iRiver H10s and the iAudio X5 have slightly smaller screens than the Nano as well, though there are a fair number of themes already for the X5 and H10 20GB.  If it weren't for the fact I own an H10 20GB and started theme-making with the smaller screen, I'd try to port some of my themes to larger-screened targets.  As it is, scaling themes up would be trickier than scaling them down, I think.

Though, I suppose I might be open to try my hand at it if people requested any non-Retired themes they'd like ported to their targets.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: saanaito on July 19, 2008, 02:23:46 PM
The Sansa C series has an even smaller screen  :D and is in desperate need of more WPSs.

I'm aware. Ever tried to watch a movie on the thing? ;)

Though, I suppose I might be open to try my hand at it if people requested any non-Retired themes they'd like ported to their targets.

That would be wonderful. Pick any theme that seems feasible. I want to work on Pen and Paper, AAPod (which I'm attempting right now), and Corners (both are for the Nano (http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpodNano)).

I'm trying hard, but as I write this post, I'm as baffled as ever by the task of getting the images in the right place, etc. This would be so much easier if Rockbox would show me the WPS as written (even if it runs off the screen), instead of reverting to the "old default" WPS (which is nothing but text). (I've converted the images already, with a little help from Irfanview and a comparison of the screen dimensions).

So if you do them and beat me to the finish, please tell. :D
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: soap on July 19, 2008, 02:47:29 PM
It won't help with failure-to-show-as-written-even-if-wrong, but developing themes on the simulator is far easier than developing them on target.
http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: karashata on July 19, 2008, 02:55:50 PM
I was actually thinking that I'd be willing to try to port some of my own themes (for the H10 20GB and iAudio X5) to other targets if there were any specific requests for themes I haven't deemed "Retired" (I'm done keeping up support for those older themes, but they're licensed so anyone else can update them or port them if they wish to).

That being said, I may try to port a few of my newer themes anyway just to see what I might be up against.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: saanaito on July 19, 2008, 04:23:42 PM
It won't help with failure-to-show-as-written-even-if-wrong, but developing themes on the simulator is far easier than developing them on target.
http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/

I don't think I would have bothered to start trying if it wasn't for the simulator. We Sansa owners already know why. >_<

... I may try to port a few of my newer themes anyway just to see what I might be up against.

You're up against the smallest color screen I've ever seen. ;)
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: ZincAlloy on July 19, 2008, 04:46:04 PM
If it weren't for the fact I own an H10 20GB and started theme-making with the smaller screen, I'd try to port some of my themes to larger-screened targets.  As it is, scaling themes up would be trickier than scaling them down, I think.

That's why I usually start out with really big graphics...
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: karashata on July 21, 2008, 12:24:40 PM
Perhaps I should have, had I ever considered that I might want to port my themes to other targets.  Then again, I didn't figure I'd get nearly as into (and good at, in my opinion) theme-designing as I did, either.

In any case, I won't be able to port any of my themes any time soon anyway, so for now I won't worry about it.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: soap on July 21, 2008, 05:08:57 PM
Just wondering if there is some sort of "download statistics" for each theme in the wikis

No, but the wiki gallery is not long of this earth.
Title: Re: Release 3.0 and Themes
Post by: karashata on July 21, 2008, 06:29:55 PM
I wonder if the new site will have some way of tracking the number of downloads...  That would be a nice thing to know, then it could give some theme authors an idea of what people like and what to focus on more...