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Support and General Use => Hardware => Topic started by: Doghouse Riley on July 26, 2016, 01:21:18 PM

Title: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on July 26, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
The only thing I bought on Amazon prime day was a 256GB Samsung SDXC.   Been wanting to see if I can double the size of my music library in Rockbox, but was waiting for the first decent sized price break.

Opened up the package, stuck the card in my adapter, did the FAT32 format thing, completed without errors.

Copied a couple of dozen mp3 and ogg files to the card, popped it in the Clip+.  Whoops!  boots up with an ATA error 4 showing above the logo, and no keypresses work.

Ok, tried reformatting with a different sector size and "slow format".  Same result on the Clip+.

So I went back to my box of players and pulled out the two other Sansa models I own, an e260 and a Fuze V2.

EUREKA!!  both worked fine - I went back and filled about 190GB of the card with music, audiobooks, and videos.   They all play fine on the two older models, but still no joy on the Clip+, same error.

Anyone know if this is a hardware limitation on the Clip  >:(, or is it something that Rockbox can be modded to fix?  :)
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: saratoga on July 26, 2016, 01:53:22 PM
Are the clip and the fuze running the same version of rockbox?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on July 26, 2016, 01:55:59 PM
Yes, all 3.13
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: saratoga on July 26, 2016, 02:20:01 PM
Yes, all 3.13

I'm surprised one would work and not the other given that they both use the same underlying hardware.  In either case, 3.13 is several years out of date at this point, so try a newer build and see if the problem has been fixed.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on July 27, 2016, 06:44:55 AM
Removed 3.13 from my Clip+ and installed the latest build showed by the Rockbox utility (06-28-2016).  Left the bootloader in place.

Same problem, shows "ATA error: -4" on startup with the 256 card installed.   Works fine with 64 and 128 cards, and the 256 card works fine on other Sansas.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on August 10, 2016, 05:26:05 AM
Which exactly version of Clip+ and Fuze v2 you have? You can check it in system > debug > view hw info.

Did you try insert card when rockbox already booted?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on August 24, 2016, 11:41:12 AM
Mihail, thanks for getting back to me, here's what I've got.

Sansa e260 
Hardware ID   PP5022C
256gb card works when inserted while powered down
256gb card works when inserted while powered up

Sansa Fuze v2
Hardware ID    AMSv2Variant0
256gb card works when inserted while powered down
256gb card not recognized when inserted while powered up, Sansa does not lock up but can navigate only to its native storage

Sansa Clip+
Hardware ID   AMSv2Variant1
256gb card crashes device with ATA error: -4 if inserted while powered down
256gb card works when inserted while powered up, however this is not ideal since I may turn the player on and off ten times a day, and I don't like removing and reinserting this fragile and expensive card every time.

All three devices are using the last official 3.13 release.

Hope you can help me to get the Clip+ to recognize the card if inserted before power up.    Thank you!
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: saratoga on August 24, 2016, 12:07:07 PM
Could you try the latest build and confirm its not fixed by the recent voltage changes?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on August 24, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Build 108a0f3-160823 from the dev builds page.

Intermittent success, crashed with the ata -4 (or -3 or -2) error about 85% of the time, occasionally booted up okay.

Also sometimes locked the player when the card was inserted after powerup.

FYI here is the card in question:

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Select-Micro-Memory-256GB/dp/B01G7L03OS
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on August 25, 2016, 05:56:31 AM
Try this build: http://knk.square7.ch/rockbox-clipplus_sd256_0.zip
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on August 25, 2016, 10:07:54 AM
No joy.  ATA -4 on every boot with the card in place.  It does read the card when inserted after bootup.

Thanks very much for your effort.

(EDIT - It just did boot correctly a couple of times.  Let me try this build tonight on another Clip+ I have at home before jumping to conclusions.)
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on August 25, 2016, 11:00:48 AM
Another build: http://knk.square7.ch/rockbox-clipplus_sd256_1.zip
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on August 26, 2016, 11:45:48 AM
Still not there.   Both the sd256_0 and _1 builds alternate between the following when booting with the card in place

displaying an ATA error with the Rockbox logo below
displaying an ATA error with nothing else
displaying a black screen, requires holding power button for ~60 seconds to get a reboot
booting up correctly with card recognized  :D

Thanks again for the response.  Perhaps we'll have to wait until these cards get cheaper and are in the hands of you and the other developers?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on August 26, 2016, 02:24:35 PM
Which exactly ata error you have with sd256_1 build? Or it just freeze?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on August 31, 2016, 02:06:51 PM
Mihail,

From a clean install of the 256_1 build, and twenty attempts to boot with the 256g card in place:

Twelve attempts gave successful boots.

Eight attempts gave a black screen with no message of any kind.  These failed boots could only be recovered from by removing the card and pressing/holding the power button two or three times.  Leaving the card in place with the black screen still showing made a reboot impossible, even when holding the power button for up to five minutes.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on August 31, 2016, 02:24:19 PM
When player successfully boot with sd card can you play music from sd card or also have some problems?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on August 31, 2016, 06:00:00 PM
No problems that I have seen other than failure to boot.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on September 04, 2016, 10:35:42 AM
New test build: http://knk.square7.ch/rockbox-clipplus_sd256_2.zip
This build will show number (something like 0xC0FF8000) at boot. To continue just press any key.

I want to know: which number you have at successful boot and which when player freeze?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Gertjan on May 06, 2017, 10:23:43 AM
Hi, any news on this before I rush to the store and buy me a 256GB card?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: saratoga on May 06, 2017, 05:03:57 PM
Hi, any news on this before I rush to the store and buy me a 256GB card?

Unless you were buying the specific clip and SD card from Doghouse Riley, you probably won't see this specific issue, just the usual low probability of SD card compatibility problems. 
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on May 07, 2017, 05:26:03 PM
specific clip and SD card from Doghouse Riley,

Checking in.  I have access to four Clip Pluses and two Samsung 256g SDXC's.   I've installed 3.14 on all of them.  I get ATA -4 error when booting with every combination of player and card.  Cards work fine if I insert them after booting, but since these are fragile and expensive little guys, that's not a good workaround.

just the usual low probability of SD card compatibility problems

Hey, if there was one user out there who would post "I am using a brand _____  256G card with a Clip Plus and Rockbox version _____  and it works fine". I'd shut up and go try to duplicate that setup.

Mihail Zenkov tried to help, and I appreciate his efforts, but since he could not duplicate the problem, we were both spending a lot of time in trial and error with no result.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: saratoga on May 07, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
Hey, if there was one user out there who would post "I am using a brand _____  256G card with a Clip Plus and Rockbox version _____  and it works fine". I'd shut up and go try to duplicate that setup.

Problem is that just because they're the same brand doesn't mean they're the same internally. Two people buying the same package may get different controllers and/or NAND chips.   

Mihail Zenkov tried to help, and I appreciate his efforts, but since he could not duplicate the problem, we were both spending a lot of time in trial and error with no result.

Did you ever reply to his last question? 
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on May 08, 2017, 12:43:48 PM
No, I guess I did not.  He was posting build after build that had no effect and I thought I had explained to him upthread that there was no need to continue.

If you are right, this may be entirely unique to my four Sansas, even though bought at different times from different vendors, and that it's a waste of time for anyone else to try and find a fix.  I don't know enough about Rockbox to tweak the voltages myself.

My apology Mihail, if you're following this.......
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Gertjan on May 09, 2017, 04:33:07 PM
If Mihail agrees on continuing investigation when having an actual clip and 256GB card at his location, I'm willing to share the shipping costs...
Until then, Doghouse Riley: what card(s) are you currently using with 100% success rate?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on May 10, 2017, 05:32:13 AM
If Mihail agrees on continuing investigation when having an actual clip and 256GB card at his location, I'm willing to share the shipping costs...
OK. But first you should bay card for yourself and if you will have problems with it - we can try debug it remotely: I will provide test builds, you - checking it.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Gertjan on May 10, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
OK. Please choose (https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/compare/564323;662275;689961;721401;755125;767073/) your pick, and I will order :)
These are the cards I can get my hands on.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on May 10, 2017, 02:20:26 PM
FYI the card I have which is not working despite Mihail's help is the Samsung Evo+ V2, so I would advise trying a different one.

I have no other 256G cards.

The card works fine when I insert it after booting.  But booting 3.14 with the card in place always gives an ATA -4 or -3 error.

This card works fine in my old Sansa e200 with both Rockbox 3.13 and 3.14, and that is where I've been using it recently.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on May 10, 2017, 05:40:02 PM
OK. Please choose (https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/compare/564323;662275;689961;721401;755125;767073/) your pick, and I will order :)
These are the cards I can get my hands on.
IMHO you can try any  "UHS Class 1" card as class 3 don't have sense with rockbox.
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on May 10, 2017, 08:22:01 PM
Mihail,

Thanks for the battery life changes in 3.14.   Like magic......
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Gertjan on May 16, 2017, 03:19:27 PM
Sorry for the late reply, been busy but now it's time to play :)
I just ordered this (https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/564323/samsung-evo-plus-256gb-microsdxc-card-+-sd-adapter.html) one, I'll keep you posted.

....aaaaaaannnd.......it works. Formatted it to FAT32 (came default with exFat), default settings, filled it with about 40GB of mixed stuff, and it just worked.
Anything you want to know about this setup? Specific specifics about the sdcard?
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Doghouse Riley on June 13, 2017, 02:38:04 PM
Gertjan, that card still working good for you?  If it is, I'll buy one as soon as we get a little price drop.........

thanks
Title: Re: 256GB SDXC in various Sansas - fails on Clip+
Post by: Gertjan on June 13, 2017, 04:58:57 PM
Still hasn't failed me. I will fill it to the brim and see if all still goed well.