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Rockbox General => Rockbox General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyRock on August 30, 2006, 11:38:13 AM

Title: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: JimmyRock on August 30, 2006, 11:38:13 AM
Last week I installed Rockbox on my iRiver iHP-140 for the first time, and I love it...I've already made my own WPS and I think generally the sound quality is better than the original firmware.  I do have many issues and questions, however...some may be bugs, or feature requests, or just misunderstandings on my part, so I've assembled them all here and I'd appreciate any feedback.  I'll gladly make new posts in other forums for any issues if necessary, just let me know.

BTW, I'm using version CVS-060826 (which was hard to write down since it only displays on the screen for a second!).  Here we go:

-- FM Radio Issues --

- The original firmware allowed fast and easy switching between playing audio files and the FM radio with a long-click on the play button.  With Rockbox, holding Play on the main unit does nothing, and on the remote it brings up a quick menu for adjusting pitch (is this feature used that often)?  You have to select the FM Radio option from the main menu, or select a preset list, to get to the radio.  To resume playing audio files while listening to the radio...I honestly can't tell you how to do it.  It seems to work differently every time I try.  I thought once I pressed NAV to bring up the file list, then selected the current song that was playing and it resumed, but then I did it again and it made a new playlist with only that directory of files in it.  This is the most frustrating part of Rockbox for me at this point.  Could a long-click on Play (or some other button) feature to switch between radio/file-play be added?  And while you're at it, how about caching the presets so it doesn't have to ping the disk every time you use the radio (and it would be super-sweet to leave the audio files currently loaded in memory cache as well so switching back and forth between files and radio is fast and clean).

- The original firmware would resume playing the radio if you shut down the unit from the radio, Rockbox does not appear to offer this feature (holding Stop while in the radio will briefly flash the main menu then shut down, and resume playing back files instead of the radio).  I'd like to see this feature added to Rockbox, especially in combination with the quick switch between radio and file playback.

- The volume of the radio seems significantly less, by many decibles, than playback of the average audio file.  If I turn the volume up, then playback of files is too loud.  I did not see this difference with the original firmware.  I'd request either having separate volume settings for the radio and audio files, or adding an option to boost (or reduce, if desired) the FM Radio volume in relation to the main volume setting.

- I thought there wasn't the ability to toggle between FM Stereo and FM Mono mode, but there is (long press on NAV, FM Menu).  But the force mono option is not described in the latest PDF doc.

- Also, add me to the list of people requesting WPS editing capability for the FM Radio screen (although, a very low priority for me over the other issues mentioned here).


-- File Playback Issues --

- Audio files around 5 seconds or less sometimes don't display in the WPS when playing normally.  For instance, I have several small sound clips, and when one of those comes up in the playlist, the song AFTER it is displayed instead while the short clip plays (the progress bar doesn't move until the displayed song starts, which is good).  If I go BACK directly to the small clip, it will display.  Could this have something to do with the crossfade settings?  How DO the crossfade settings affect the WPS display, if at all?

- When the WPS is waiting for the next file to load and doesn't yet have the tag info, the default for Genre seems to be "Blues".  It's should probably be blank instead.

- I have Gather Runtime Data on, but all of the songs have a playcount and rating of zero, no matter how many times I've played them.  When does this data get updated?

- It's unclear how to just start playing all files (in shuffle mode or not) when first starting.  I ended up manually creating a playlist in Winamp for all files and selecting that to play.  When I was first playing around with it trying to get all files to play, I guess I ended up with a dynamic playlist and it took minutes to start up (with a "Loading...%" display).  Not sure what it was loading, with the fixed playlist it doesn't do that anymore, starts up quick now.  Anyway, my point here is that it's confusing how it works and how to "begin", and the "Loading %" and other things were (and still are) confusing, just something to think about (maybe just better documentation or on-screen navigation aids is called for, and maybe a "Play All" option for simplicity).


-- General Issues --

- The remote backlight is on all the time when the unit is connected by USB.

- I get a ticking sound when plugged into remote, the Reduce Ticking option helps, but it's not perfect.  I do not get the ticking when using the original firmware.

- A time-out/return to the While Playing/FM Screen for the menu/file browser would be nice, especially since it's not always clear how to get back to the WPS...sometimes it's Play, sometimes NAV, sometimes one or many left or right taps, sometimes A-B.  A time-out on the menus would help the confused, like myself, get back to the WPS when unsure of what to do.

- Relating to the previous item, how about putting "Press (whatever) to return to WPS" or equivalent on the menu/browser screens?  When you have a complicated, feature-rich interface, any navigation help is appreciated.

- Voice menus...I turned on the voice menus and file/directory spelling for fun, but quickly got annoyed with it...I turned it off, but then realized I had to turn off all three (menus, dirs and files) options separately.  It would be nice if there was a way to easily turn on and off ALL the voice options at once, a "master" voice option, if you will.

- The battery display is odd with the AC Adapter connected...if the battery fully charged, it always shows "84%" and "0h 46m".  If I unplug the adapter, it goes immediately to "100% 16h 15m".

- Some more detailed documentation on certain settings, their effects, and how they interact with other settings would be nice.  For instance, on the iRiver, what effect does the Anti-Skip Buffer setting have on the rest of the memory?  Since the music is being played from memory anyway, what use is an Anti-Skip Buffer?  Does it have any effect on how often or when the songs are read from the disk?

- Any way to use more than one font on the WPS?  Or a different one than is used for the menus?


That's it...thanks for making a great music OS and I appreciate any feedback.
-JimmyRock

Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: Llorean on August 30, 2006, 11:46:01 AM
The forums are not the place to report bugs *or* file feature requests. As well, it would be best if you broke up this into individual ideas if you do choose to pursue them as feature requests.

I will address a few of your questions though.

The anti-skip buffer tells when it starts refilling the compressed buffer. How much music will be left in it at the time that it spins up the disk to start refilling. Essentially, the higher you set it, the more time your disk has to spin up before the compressed buffer is empty. Lower means better battery life. Higher means less likelihood of skipping if something is preventing your disk from spinning up properly (such as shaking it or whatnot).

Multiple fonts are not possible at this time.

Gather Runtime Data only works with TagCache, and I'm not sure how functional it is yet even with that.
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: bascule on August 30, 2006, 03:01:53 PM
Gather Runtime Data only works with TagCache, and I'm not sure how functional it is yet even with that.

It's very functional. This post of mine covers it briefly: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5755.msg44595#msg44595

But I'm assuming the OP has had TagCache enabled, otherwise he would never have seen the playcount option.
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: JimmyRock on August 30, 2006, 03:31:05 PM
Thanks Llorean, some follow-up questions:

The anti-skip buffer tells when it starts refilling the compressed buffer. How much music will be left in it at the time that it spins up the disk to start refilling. Essentially, the higher you set it, the more time your disk has to spin up before the compressed buffer is empty. Lower means better battery life. Higher means less likelihood of skipping if something is preventing your disk from spinning up properly (such as shaking it or whatnot).

Let me expand and clarify my anti-skip buffer question...the iHP-140 has 32MB of memory.   Upon boot, Rockbox loads the OS, dir cache, and whatever else into this memory, then uses the rest to load music files, let's say 30MB.  Once it's done filling up that 30MB, the disk spins down.  It plays from this memory until a certain point (not sure what that is, which is part of my question), then it spins up the disk and refills the memory.  What I'm asking is what part does anti-skip play in this scenario.  For a CD disc player, the setting would be how much memory to use for buffering songs versus reading them directly from the disc, but that doesn't apply here as all the music is played from memory already.  Does anti-skip segregate the available memory into a separate buffer?  Say I set it to 30 seconds, will the available memory for songs now be 30MB minus 30 seconds worth (whatever MB that is)?  And does that have something to do with when the unit decides to spin the disk up to fill that 30MB again?  I'm just confused about what purpose this setting serves in this case, all the music is always played out of memory.

Multiple fonts are not possible at this time.

Is multiple fonts (or different fonts for WPS) already a feature request?  Is it planned for the near future?

Gather Runtime Data only works with TagCache, and I'm not sure how functional it is yet even with that.

I'm using the %rp and %rr tags in the WPS to display the play count and rating, and it's always zero.  I have TagCache initialized and updated, is there some other settings I need to change for this to work?  Is Auto Update for Tag Cache required?

Thanks for your help,
-JimmyRock
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: JimmyRock on August 30, 2006, 03:48:22 PM
It's very functional. This post of mine covers it briefly: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5755.msg44595#msg44595

But I'm assuming the OP has had TagCache enabled, otherwise he would never have seen the playcount option.

Thanks bascule, I do see some numbers in the TagCache list (I normally use the file list), but the numbers are not appearing in the WPS with the %rp and %rr tags, or I should say, they always appear as zero (0).  A bug?

Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: bascule on August 30, 2006, 04:44:31 PM
It's very functional. This post of mine covers it briefly: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5755.msg44595#msg44595

But I'm assuming the OP has had TagCache enabled, otherwise he would never have seen the playcount option.

Thanks bascule, I do see some numbers in the TagCache list (I normally use the file list), but the numbers are not appearing in the WPS with the %rp and %rr tags, or I should say, they always appear as zero (0).  A bug?

OK, so that's a different question. No, those tags do not work, they are a hangover from the previous tag database system. You can only see the autoscore etc. runtime info through the TagCache/ID3 view.

As regards the anti-skip, as Llorean said, it only comes into play if, for some unlikely reason, the next chunk of data cannot be got off the disk within the anti-skip timeframe. This would only occur under extreme circumstances such as maybe massive fragmentation of the drive, or the drive not spinning up because of impact.

I had the same confusion and originally set it quite high, but now I'm back to 5 secs without a problem :)

Multiple fonts within the same WPS are not possible (although I think there's a patch floating about somewhere, but not for the H-1xx?), however, there is a font pack on the downloads page if you want to change the overall look.
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: Llorean on August 30, 2006, 07:25:41 PM
Okay, imagine that you're using 29mb of memory for compressed audio. The player fills it all up. When it gets down to say, 1mb left, it starts refilling. If you increase the anti-skip buffer, it may refill at 1.5, or 2mb instead. This makes sure that if it can't spin up the disk for some reason, you're less likely to get a skip while it tries again. Of course, this also means the disk spins up more often because less of the full buffer is really getting used.
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: fml2 on August 31, 2006, 08:59:23 AM
Quote
The original firmware would resume playing the radio if you shut down the unit from the radio, Rockbox does not appear to offer this feature (holding Stop while in the radio will briefly flash the main menu then shut down, and resume playing back files instead of the radio).

Shameless plug: there is a patch (FS#5049) which does exactly that (and even more). I'm not sure if it's still compatible with the latest builds since button handling in the WPS and/or radio screens might have been reworked since the latest update of the patch.
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: roolku on August 31, 2006, 09:17:21 AM
Thanks bascule, I do see some numbers in the TagCache list (I normally use the file list), but the numbers are not appearing in the WPS with the %rp and %rr tags, or I should say, they always appear as zero (0).  A bug?

This was implemented:

Quote
26 Aug 16:06   Miika Pekkarinen   apps/tagtree.c 1.33
firmware/export/id3.h 1.29    Runtime stats for WPS.

I only have playcount in my wps, but it works as expected. (when buffering from disk it might take a few seconds to update)
Title: Re: Questions & Issues about Rockbox for iRiver iHP-1XX
Post by: JimmyRock on August 31, 2006, 11:01:29 AM
Okay, imagine that you're using 29mb of memory for compressed audio. The player fills it all up. When it gets down to say, 1mb left, it starts refilling. If you increase the anti-skip buffer, it may refill at 1.5, or 2mb instead. This makes sure that if it can't spin up the disk for some reason, you're less likely to get a skip while it tries again. Of course, this also means the disk spins up more often because less of the full buffer is really getting used.

Okay, so the anti-skip setting in this case is telling the system how much data should be left in memory to play before it starts filling the entire memory buffer again...that makes sense, and is exactly the setting I'd like to have.  But it should be much more clear in the docs that this is what it's doing.

Bascule and Roolku, I thought I had a build recent enough to include a change from 8/26, but I'll give the most recent build a try soon and see if the playcount/rating tags work now.

Thanks for your help everyone,
-JimmyRock