Rockbox Technical Forums
Support and General Use => Hardware => Topic started by: Army on June 28, 2009, 07:58:23 AM
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Hi guys
I did some googling and also searching in this forum, but my problem seems to be a bigger one.
I'm a linux user and whenever there's a problem, there's a shell command, which outputs some useful information. In my case it's the following:
I plug my ipod into the usb port, but nothing happens on the computer. The ipod itself behaves as usual, it jumps into usb mode (but only when rockbox is started, no reaction, when I'm in the original firmware), the akku starts loading, but the disk doesn't give me the sound of being mounted, usually there's some i/o, because it's being recognized by linux.
So I run the command "dmesg" and that's the relevant output:
usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 64
usb 4-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 4-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 65
usb 4-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 4-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 66
usb 4-1: device not accepting address 66, error -71
usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 67
usb 4-1: device not accepting address 67, error -71
hub 4-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 1
Some googling (http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-421241.html) told me "error -71" means bad cable, so I tried with another one, but same result. I tried these things mentioned on the ubuntuforums site, but it didn't change anyting. I also tried all 4 usb ports on my laptop (the ipod used to work with all of them..) but still, same result. So I plugged it into a windows machine. There I get a reaction, but it tells me "unknown device" (translated from german into english, I don't know what an english version of windows xp would spit out), so it cannot be mounted either. Last try was, I plugged it into a macbook pro, but as with my linux machine, absolutely no reaction.
So, what can be broken on my ipod? I guess it's a hardware problem, but where to start here? Could the problem be solved by a new hd? The problem is, I could send it to apple, so they can repair it, but ... I have rockbox on it and I can't delete it ;-)
Help is very appreciated!!!
Greetings
Army
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someone in IRC mentioned pretty much the same issue earlier today using his Ipod Video 30GB. He only had this issue with the latest (k)ubuntu (9.04). If you're using any ubuntu derivate, could you try wether an older live CD (8.04 for example) yields the same issue? I think it might be a bug in ubuntu.
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The overly aggressive attempts to mount devices as MTP have been fixed since at least a week ago. My Rockboxed players now mount properly in (k)ubuntu 9.04. As well, the user mentioned it not working with any different cables, ports, computers/OSes. It seems that Army has done the right things to try to eliminate possible factors that would contribute to bad USB connectivity.
Are you sure that the second cable you used was good? I have had rather poor experience with the longevity of iPod cables. It's possible, though I admit not very likely, that the second cable was also bad. I think you should try to find another iPod that syncs properly to a computer and substitute your iPod in place of that one to make sure you have a working chain (good port, good cable, working PC). If that fails you can be confident that something is wrong with your iPod, itself. This could still be attributed to several different things like a corroded contact in your dock connector or on the board, or some kind of failure in the SOC, I suppose.
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Thanks for your replies!
I am 99% sure, that the other cable works. It's my brother's and he connects his iPod to his Mac all the time and it would be a GREAT coincidence if his cable broke at that day I tested it on my linux machine (btw, I use Archlinux, I know that Ubuntu is totally buggy, so I don't use that anymore ;-) ) and his Mac.
I think I'll check if the contacts are corroded, that's what I was thinking of in the first moment as well. But they are hard to be cleaned, I guess I have to open the player for this, right?
I mean, I never dropped it or anything. I was thinking about the harddrive to be the reason, because it seems to be weakened already, although it's only about a year old..
But let's say the contacts are fine and I don't find anything, what could I do to repair this by myself? Do you guys have any ideas, what this could be caused by?
Chronon, with SOC, do you mean the chip? I mean, the player works as before, I can do anything, except of mounting it.. Wouldn't that work anymore with a broken chip?
I know, many questions, but I'm really not good at hardware stuff, that's why I'm asking for help here
Greetz
Army
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So does your iPod mount correctly on your brother's Mac using his cable ? Or does it fail there too ?
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It fails there too, it fails with any combination. But I think I'll test it again this weekend, hope I'll see him then, i.e. he tries his ipod with my cable or so to be 100% sure, that this is not the culprit.
Still, any hints, how I could check the contacts right?
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I would check the contacts in the dock connector. If they have corrosion you might try applying an acetic acid (white vinegar) solution, which selectively etches copper oxide and hydroxide compared to the copper. Here's an abstract with some details: A Novel Method of Etching Copper Oxide Using Acetic Acid (http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JESOAN00014800001100G640000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes)
You could also look for any corrosion on the board. (Maybe some flux didn't get completely cleaned off and ended up causing some corrosion.)
Hopefully, it's the former cause. The latter one may still be able to be repaired by soldering a point to point connection to replace a corroded trace.
Anything beyond that and I'm afraid I don't have any ideas.
As far as inspection goes, get a good magnifying glass and a good light source. If the contacts are shiny then they should be fine. You can compare the USB data pins to the power pins (which I am assuming still work).
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Thanks a bunch you guys, now I think I can try to repair this. Might take a while, because I'm relatively busy.
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Ok, so it seems like the fault is somewhere inside the player, both cables (mine and my brother's) are okay and the contacts are clean. So ... seems like this piece of hardware is ready for the trash can :-(
But to make this clear, the player is kind of being recognized by the computer, but not as a harddrive. I don't know enough about hardware, but what part of the iPod tells the computer "hi, I'm a harddrive"? The chipset? If so, damn! ;-) In case it's the harddrive itself, I could fix it by replacing it.
Does this make sense? I would really love to continue using this player, but I have no warrany left, so I'll have to do it by myself
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You should be able to get into Apple's Disk Mode without a functional HD. It sounded like it wouldn't mount even in Disk Mode.
You could also try to run Apple's Diagnostic Mode to run hardware tests (e.g. test for a faulty HD).
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Right, it doesn't mount, whatever I do. I am able to get into the disk mode and I tried the diagnostic mode, but that doesn't find any problems, although I'm not sure how to interpret some of the results, e.g. the "USB Test" only spits out "ID=0x22FA05" and I have no idea, what to do with that output. With no cable plugged in, it tells me "No Cable Conn" which is right ;-)
Now I also asked in a german apple forum, I hope they have an idea (although I think they will rip me apart when I tell them I used Rockbox and Linux as OS, so I won't ;) )
Still I'm really thankful for any kind of ideas!!
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Ipods have a so called disk mode, that is set by itunes this is needed before the computer will see it as a hard disk if something has knocked this out you may need itunes to reset it.
it might be worth doing a complete restore as well again using itunes.
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Since iTunes needs disk access to the iPod to do a restore, if the disk access isn't working, he *can't* restore it with iTunes.
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Right, there's no way to access the harddisk :-(
Something else came to my mind. Usually, there are two partitions, right? One where the original firmware is stored and which is being modified, when Rockbox is being installed. And the other one is the real harddisk, where my data is stored. What I was thinking about is, in case only the harddisk was dead, there should at least appear the partition with the firmware. But both aren't being found. So it cannot be caused by a harddisk failure. Logically thinking I can only come to the conclusion, that the chip is damaged.
Seems like I have to buy another player, because repairing it would cost too much I guess. Before I start reading http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.0 let me ask here, would you recommend buying a Sansa e2** V2? I know they aren't fully supported, but seems like almost all works already according to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaAMS I can be patient to wait till it's ready or help!
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The firmware partiton and the data partition are both on the hard disk.
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I would like to add that I have the exact same problem with my Gigabeat F60. It started a few weeks ago, now Linux/OpenSolaris are unable to mount the device and Windows detects only an "unknown device" so I have no way to upgrade Rockbox to see if this was fixed in a very recent version.
Yesterday I managed, don't know how, to prevent the firmware from seeing Rockbox at boot ("bad system file" or something like that), asking me to plug the player. I did, and the USB connectivity worked perfectly, I was able to mount the disk- but didn't have the insight to delete rockbox then. And now I don't know how to boot in that mode again.
Meaning that the problem is very likely to originate from Rockbox itself rather than the hardware...
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I would like to add that I have the exact same problem with my Gigabeat F60.
This is very unlikely. USB on ipod and gigabeat work totally different
Yesterday I managed, don't know how, to prevent the firmware from seeing Rockbox at boot ("bad system file" or something like that), asking me to plug the player. I did, and the USB connectivity worked perfectly, I was able to mount the disk- but didn't have the insight to delete rockbox then. And now I don't know how to boot in that mode again.
Meaning that the problem is very likely to originate from Rockbox itself rather than the hardware...
How old is the rockbox bootloader on your gigabeat?
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I installed a new .rockbox firmware 2 weeks ago, however the bootloader itself is around 1.5 years old.
When I'm home tonight, I'll try updating both bootloader & firmware using the HDD unplug-hotplug trick.
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Ok, of course you are right :D Otherwise it would appear as /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc and not /dev/sdb1 and /dev/sdb2 ...
Well, I found a Sandisk Sansa e280 on eBay being sold by a Rockbox user, so this is gonna be my replacement, but still it would be great to solve this problem, because this f***ing iPod was expensive! :D
Thanks again for all your input!!
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My problem is solved as well with a bootloader and firmware upgrade. Maybe something got corrupted.
Rock on.
EDIT : btw, sorry Army for hijacking your thread :)
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No problem ;-)
I just received the Sandisk Sansa e260 and HELL this is a great little player!! There's a 16GB MicroSD card with it, so I have 20GB space, which is really great! And this player sounds a LOT better than the iPod, it feels really expensive, quite heavy for its size and all in all simply a great tool, I LOVE it!
But still I won't throw away the iPod, who knows, maybe I'll make it getting it to run again.
Thread closed for me, thanks again for all you guys, next questions will be about e260, although I think this player holds forever, feels so rock solid!
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Ok, one last comment, I know now what caused all this sh**, it's my f***ing power supply I bought for my laptop after the other one died. It has an usb port for simple power supply. I charged my iPod on this and it seems like the voltage is too high sometimes, because guess what, I get the EXACT same messages with my new Sansa after having it plugged in there for an hour or so. I tell you, I'm really pissed of right now, this SUCKS! I'll go into that store and tell them what's going on, hopefully I get something for it, this cost me a lot of money!
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Wow. Thanks for the update. That's a bummer, though. :(
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Absolutely! Here's a pic of that crap
http://www.arlt.com/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/z1/3170125_z1.jpg
I have one last question, could open a new thread for that, but I try it here:
Right now I cannot access the internal memory of my Sansa via computer, but I am able to access it when I run Rockbox. My question now is, is the following action safe?
To make an update of rockbox, I usually do this with the computer, extract the archive in the root folder and everything is fine. Now I'm not able to do this anymore. So I was thinking about extracting the archive on my micro-sd card, plug it in the player, start rockbox, and then move (or copy) the folder into the root folder of the internal memory and overwrite everything. Will rockbox crash, when I do that? Because if so, that would be a big problem, since the original firmware cannot access the 16GB micro-sd card. This would be a way to continue using my now broken Sansa :-) Of course I could use a smaller micro-sd card to do this action with the original firmware, but I don't have one and don't really want to buy one only for this ;-)
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You can't transfer or rename files with the OF, so it wouldn't help.
To answer your question: Yes, you should be able to update Rockbox by copying a new .rockbox folder from the SD card to the root of your Sansa.
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Alright, thanks Chronon for the quick answer, I tried it and it worked :-) So this is just a minor problem with the Sansa, a little bit uncomfortable, but it's ok, I don't update Rockbox every day (although I would love to) ;-)
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Hey do u still the ipod? Were you able to get it fixed?
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Hi, no this is not fixed, I still have this iPod, but I'm thinking about selling it as broken on eBay or maybe I'm trying to make an external drive out of the hd (in case it isn't broken, I still don't exactly know, what this all is caused by)
But I'm wondering, why do you ask this? Do you have the same problem with your player? Do you want to buy my iPod? ;)
Greetz
Army