Rockbox Technical Forums

Third Party => Other Utilities => Topic started by: shayguitarra on March 28, 2009, 06:57:27 AM

Title: DBM - Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: shayguitarra on March 28, 2009, 06:57:27 AM
Hi,

I originally posted this here: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=20612.msg147536#msg147536

The mods have closed that thread so I've decided to start a new thread. They didn't close it because of this post, so I hope I'm not in breach of forum etiquette.

Local.fm http://www.last.fm/group/I+Use+Local.fm is an application for Windows that can create local playlists from your own last.fm statistics: tags, loved tracks, most played etc. I think this would be an incredible addition to rockbox's functionality if an application with similar abilities could be developed.

Ideally it would act in a similar way to dbm: http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~davison/software/dbm/dbm.php
dbm gets around the problem of playlist translation from pc to player by searching the files on your device, so the file paths are correct from the beginning.

How feasible would it be to create a cross-platform version for rockbox? I did searches under local.fm and variants and it doesn't seem as if anyone has posted on this before. I am speaking as a lowly user (although I would be happy to help with testing) with no programming knowledge.
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: audio-i on March 28, 2009, 12:30:30 PM
I originally posted this here: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=20612.msg147536#msg147536

I will try and summarize the results of the thread you mention.

The main idea is to include in Rockbox a feature that generates playlists of similar music from the local music library (although, as you say, this can be expanded to generate playlists based on other criteria).

For that, this seems to be what is needed:

1) An application that determines the local tracks similarities, which will be used for generating such playlists. A feasible and efficient method for this seems to be using the lastfm.com database, which needs of course online access; therefore a PC program to do that is needed (as I understand it, you propose to use the “last.fm connection” to go even further and use the loved tracks, most played, etc features there)

2) A feature in Rockbox that uses that information to create new playlists on-the-go, so that when listening to a song using Rockbox (seed song) a fresh playlist containing similar tracks can be generated

Ideally it would act in a similar way to dbm: http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~davison/software/dbm/dbm.php

In the mentioned thread, a the program you mention came up (by Myrmornis) that did most of the first part. It goes even further, because it pre-generates playlists (that are “ready to use” in Rockbox) of similar random music for every artists in your library; also, for every artist in your local library, it creates folder links (ready to be followed using Rockbox) to similar artists related, which can also be used to manually build similar music playlists using Rockbox.

In the end, the thread’s discussion went towards 1) - actually support to Myrmornis' program - and not really to 2), and that’s why it was closed. It would only make sense again if someone would get interested in developing the second part (really the Rockbox feature).
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: shayguitarra on March 28, 2009, 06:59:50 PM
If you check back the previous thread you will find that I was one of those responsible for turning it into a support thread for dbm. My final post was an attempt to turn it back towards what I felt was its original purpose. ;)

I think that what I am suggesting is slightly different. I'm not so interested in generating on-the-go playlists, but to have a selection of preloaded playlists conforming to different criteria: Loved, Most Played, Selected tags and so on. These would be all be single criteria playlists for the moment as I'm assuming this is easier.

My situation is this: over the past year or so I have switched between a number of different music managers iTunes>Mediamonkey>Rhythmbox>Amarok>Banshee>gmusicbrowser. On each occasion apart from the first I lost all of my play statistics (counts, play dates, ratings etc.). So effectively last.fm is the only authoritative source for this information. So it would be good if all of that information could be harnessed.

Local.fm seems to go some way toward doing this. Effectively what a similar program for rockbox would do is:

Access, for example, my most played tracks on last.fm, It would then compare this list with my ipod and create a local playlist with those tracks. Ideally it would also tell me if any tracks are missing so I can add them  This seems to me an easier proposition than yours, excellent idea though it is, as your pc would do the processing work and effectively produce static playlists. These could then be updated as your listening habits change and develop.

This is why I gave the example of dbm.

I don't have Windows or Media Player on my home computer so I can't check out local.fm. Time and user permissions permitting I may be able to try it out on my work pc on Monday. So I'll report back then.
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: Llorean on March 29, 2009, 12:36:10 AM
Preloaded playlists are a job for a utility on the computer then. Not something to discuss here - since we use standard M3U playlists any tool that can do this with standard playlists would work.

Ideas here should be discussing things Rockbox could do.
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: shayguitarra on March 29, 2009, 02:48:40 AM
Point Taken.  :)
Title: playlists and static rockbox database
Post by: Myrmornis on March 29, 2009, 05:01:35 AM
As Llorean has said, m3u playlist generation is not a rockbox topic, so we should discuss it elsewhere. If you'd like to carry on this discussion, please send a personal message to myself or shayguitarra, and we'll carry on off-line. It is not too hard to add the sorts of playlist features being discussed to the software that I am distributing (http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~davison/software/dbm/dbm.php), so any further discussion wouldn't just be idle pipe-dreaming.

My program (dbm) is specifically designed for rockbox and has rockbox-specific functionality, in that it creates a static alternative to the rockbox tag database, implemented using rockbox linkfiles. This has the potential for extra functionality, because the database is generated in the presence of an internet connection. It would be very useful to have further discussion regarding the design of this sort of static rockbox database. The rockbox forums would be a convenient place, but perhaps this is still slightly off-topic, as it would still essentially be a discussion regarding the features implemented by a non-rockbox piece of software. If the forum admins could let us know whether they'd like that discussion to take place here or not then that would be a helpful start.
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: Llorean on March 29, 2009, 05:07:25 AM
Even if it is (which is somewhat of a topic of discussion of its own) this is the forum for Feature Ideas for Rockbox.

So, assuming it were 100% appropriate for these forums (we don't really have a good policy for 'related apps' yet) it certainly doesn't belong in this section of it, nor does technical support for such an app belong here (as we are not providers of it).

So the only relevant discussion really would really be pointing people at its existence if someone were looking for such functionality, and the documentation and communications avenues made available by its provider, unless we develop a policy on providing support avenues for other peoples' software (which we generally do not do so far).
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: Myrmornis on March 29, 2009, 05:16:18 AM
OK, so just to be clear, anyone interested in discussing using dbm for playlist generation and static database generation for rockbox using online services like last.fm, please send me a personal message  (either Myrmornis, or davison att stats dott ox dott ac dott uk), and we can discuss it offline. It would help a lot with improving the software.
Title: Re: Local.fm for Rockbox?
Post by: Llorean on March 29, 2009, 05:17:22 AM
General discussion of the concepts is fine. Specific questions about specific tools are different. I think you're missing my points.