Rockbox Technical Forums

Support and General Use => Hardware => Topic started by: Braverman on November 03, 2021, 01:15:50 PM

Title: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 03, 2021, 01:15:50 PM
Upgrading my Sansa e280's (v1 and v2) to 3.15 and have noticed some problems:

1. When installing from the utility it deletes your config.cfg AND most-recent.bmark files. Both of which I not not mention should not be touched.
2. When playing through a playlist and it comes to a file that no long exists, 3.14 would skip over it, 3.15 stops on it, informing the user that the filename is <root> and then sits - patiently - waiting.
3. Can't remember for the life of me what the third problem is.

And just a further question (excuse me the player just found another one of those files) ... In a V2 when you choose "files" from the menu you can see the internal memory and the external SDCard, on a V1 you can't - just a firmware change in the Sansa?
... 'cause I happen to LOVE being able to to that.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: saratoga on November 03, 2021, 01:36:40 PM
Quote
Upgrading my Sansa e280's (v1 and v2) to 3.15 and have noticed some problems:

FWIW 3.15 is a 3 year old stable release meaning that it is not developed and we don't need to know what doesn't work since nothing will be fixed.  Rather than run old releases you should probably run the current build.

Quote
1. When installing from the utility it deletes your config.cfg AND most-recent.bmark files. Both of which I not not mention should not be touched.

I don't think this is correct.  The update process is designed to preserve settings and should not delete anything.

Quote
2. When playing through a playlist and it comes to a file that no long exists, 3.14 would skip over it, 3.15 stops on it, informing the user that the filename is <root> and then sits - patiently - waiting.

That didn't change.  Missing files are still skipped.

Quote
In a V2 when you choose "files" from the menu you can see the internal memory and the external SDCard, on a V1 you can't

The V1 and V2 (and all devices) work the same.  Could you clarify what you mean?  What can't you do?
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: chris_s on November 03, 2021, 02:19:39 PM
Quote
2. When playing through a playlist and it comes to a file that no long exists, 3.14 would skip over it, 3.15 stops on it, informing the user that the filename is <root> and then sits - patiently - waiting.

That didn't change.  Missing files are still skipped.
The behavior described by the OP is something I'd noticed myself. It was introduced about 4 years ago (so before the release of 3.15) by this commit: https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/commit/dfff938dff089667038041fcb66262c87c3186c2

There's a a patch on Gerrit (https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/3305) that changes it back to how it had been previously (except that it now won't skip over the last entry of a playlist). I should remove the "WIP" label since it doesn't seem to have caused any problems testing it for the better part of a year now on my devices.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: saratoga on November 03, 2021, 02:27:16 PM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I just created a playlist, deleted a file in the middle of the playlist and played it. The playlist skipped the missing file as expected. Or does it work differently if it's m3u for the playlist?
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: chris_s on November 03, 2021, 03:01:55 PM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I just created a playlist, deleted a file in the middle of the playlist and played it. The playlist skipped the missing file as expected. Or does it work differently if it's m3u for the playlist?
I'm not sure right now why we're seeing different behavior.   ??? Would have expected you to see something like this when reaching a missing file:
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: chris_s on November 03, 2021, 03:15:54 PM
I guess if you're only playing a folder, the file would disappear from the playlist (and thus be skipped) after stopping/resuming playback, since the tracks would not be inserted into the playlist. That's the only thing I can think of right now.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 04, 2021, 09:41:08 AM
Before anything else, what is the "current stable" version and why doesn't the install utility designate it as such?
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: bluebrother on November 04, 2021, 10:08:56 AM
Before anything else, what is the "current stable" version and why doesn't the install utility designate it as such?

It's 3.15 and Rockbox Utility designates it as such.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Bilgus on November 04, 2021, 12:12:03 PM
I think some of those issues are already fixed in the dev version
Again we don't fix bugs in the older stuff it's already set in stone

Stable doesn't mean works perfectly and there hasn't been anyone testing these builds for your device
Clearly.
Best I can say is use a dev version so we are sure the bugs are still there and actually have a chance at finding and fixing them

The codebase is in much better shape now versus 3.14and 3.15 we have found  fixed alot of BAD
For instance A few months ago we fixed 100s of issues identified by coverity code analysis
From buffer overruns to just terrible code literally 100s left but we got the worst of it...

It's all a work in progress but old bugs from past releases dont push the bar closer to perfection
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 04, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
I think some of those issues are already fixed in the dev version
Again we don't fix bugs in the older stuff it's already set in stone

Stable doesn't mean works perfectly and there hasn't been anyone testing these builds for your device
Clearly.
Best I can say is use a dev version so we are sure the bugs are still there and actually have a chance at finding and fixing them

The codebase is in much better shape now versus 3.14and 3.15 we have found  fixed alot of BAD
For instance A few months ago we fixed 100s of issues identified by coverity code analysis
From buffer overruns to just terrible code literally 100s left but we got the worst of it...

It's all a work in progress but old bugs from past releases dont push the bar closer to perfection
Bilgus, nice to see you again ...

Which dev version would be the one to "test/try out"?
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Bilgus on November 04, 2021, 02:37:58 PM
We don't typically leave things knowingly broken so whatever the latest is unless someone says otherwise (if known issues present like the USB thing)

Dev builds get built nightly at the least
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 05, 2021, 09:40:43 AM
We don't typically leave things knowingly broken so whatever the latest is unless someone says otherwise (if known issues present like the USB thing)

Dev builds get built nightly at the least

Is that what gets shown in the installer? Or placed somewhere else?
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Bilgus on November 05, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
I don't use rbitil like at all so not the last word but yes I believe rbitil pulls the latest nightlies
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: saratoga on November 06, 2021, 10:23:25 PM
I guess if you're only playing a folder, the file would disappear from the playlist (and thus be skipped) after stopping/resuming playback, since the tracks would not be inserted into the playlist. That's the only thing I can think of right now.

You're right, I just tested it and M3U is handled differently.  I never noticed since I don't use M3U much.  I think that behavior should be reverted.

I'll comment on the gerrit task.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 09, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
I don't use rbitil like at all so not the last word but yes I believe rbitil pulls the latest nightlies

I see that point differently; you as a developer wouldn't use it for obvious reasons, but - this is only a guess - but I'm thinking 75% of the people who buy a player and hear about Rockbox WILL use The util, which makes it pretty important to either not have developers versions list or to do so with a warning.
I use it (didn't when I was testing the other versions), as I can never remember which version of the player I've connected.

Now then when can I see what the latest version is? 3.15 on 280v2 is causing a lot of problems - minor - but annoying, so ...

The util shows: b14df9077f - OOPS just saw the note next to it, so this point is moot (never saw it before), but brings up humble suggestion. In the info within the player you note when it was installed but not the version - perhaps that would be helpful,especially, when there are problems and the user has no idea what he put on it (I mention that as I am often guilty).

I'm going to install it today and see if the mentioned problems, as well as others are still plaguing me.

THANK YOU!

**************** UPdate *************
Attached is what happens when a playlist attempts to load a file that is either not there, or is mis-spelled etc.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: saratoga on November 09, 2021, 03:39:39 PM

The util shows: b14df9077f - OOPS just saw the note next to it, so this point is moot (never saw it before), but brings up humble suggestion. In the info within the player you note when it was installed but not the version

Both the boot screen and System -> Rockbox Info show the version and build date that is installed.  Rockbox utility will also show you the version you have installed, at least if you're using it to install.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Frankenpod on November 10, 2021, 02:21:00 PM

I see that point differently; you as a developer wouldn't use it for obvious reasons, but - this is only a guess - but I'm thinking 75% of the people who buy a player and hear about Rockbox WILL use The util, which makes it pretty important to either not have developers versions list or to do so with a warning.

Don't know about your original issue, but I disagree with this point - RButil seems to me to be quite clear about giving you the choice of the most recent 'point release' (aka 'stable' version) or the latest dev version, and almost always I install the latest dev version (usually after checking the list of recent changes shown on here - sometimes there's recent relevant ones that makes the latest dev version desirable to me).

Also Rockbox itself, and RButil, both, as far as I remember it, list the build-date of the relevant dev version.  (Hence I sometimes look at some of my less-used devices and think 'gosh, this one's using a build from over a year ago')
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: bluebrother on November 10, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
I see that point differently; you as a developer wouldn't use it for obvious reasons, but - this is only a guess - but I'm thinking 75% of the people who buy a player and hear about Rockbox WILL use The util, which makes it pretty important to either not have developers versions list or to do so with a warning.
I use it (didn't when I was testing the other versions), as I can never remember which version of the player I've connected.

I don't understand what you're complaining about. Can you be more specific?

Rockbox Utility defaults to "Stable Release" if it hasn't been used before, and the build type used in the previous install if it has been used before (since it's likely you'd want that build type on the next install again -- especially if you installed a development build.) The build type is clearly shown in the version dropdown. It allows you to install the most recent development version too, and it's indicated as "Development Version". Next to the dropdown is a short explanation. If the player you're trying to install to doesn't have a released version it will fallback to selecting the development version. This usually happens when no new release has been made, but it has been updated to already support it (f.e.: right now this includes the AGPTek Rocker, since no release has been made for that player yet, and only if you use a development version of Rockbox Utility.)

When installing using Rockbox Utility it will also create a log file that will allow to identify the installed version of all files. This is shown on the Info tab, and shows the installed version. For development versions there isn't a version number like for releases, so it uses the git hash instead. This allows to find outdated files (f.e. files that have been removed at some point, or renamed). Unsurprisingly this only works if you installed using Rockbox Utility -- if you unzipped the build yourself the log file doesn't know about this (unsurprisingly.)

How do you think this could get improved?

So for those 75% users you mentioned (though I'd expect that to be more than 75%) would connect the player, run Rockbox Utility, default to latest release, install, and are done, and if it's one of the older players, likely won't touch it again. What else could they want?
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM

I see that point differently; you as a developer wouldn't use it for obvious reasons, but - this is only a guess - but I'm thinking 75% of the people who buy a player and hear about Rockbox WILL use The util, which makes it pretty important to either not have developers versions list or to do so with a warning.

Don't know about your original issue, but I disagree with this point - RButil seems to me to be quite clear about giving you the choice of the most recent 'point release' (aka 'stable' version) or the latest dev version, and almost always I install the latest dev version (usually after checking the list of recent changes shown on here - sometimes there's recent relevant ones that makes the latest dev version desirable to me).

It does and I stand corrected. I looked at 3 different units before I posted that AND put the latest dev version on, as I wanted to be able to keep track, but just didn't see it - sorry.

Also Rockbox itself, and RButil, both, as far as I remember it, list the build-date of the relevant dev version.  (Hence I sometimes look at some of my less-used devices and think 'gosh, this one's using a build from over a year ago')
Again I totally missed it. I had asked Bilgus about where the versions were as I did not see the date listed next to them in the utll - I swear I REALLY need to pay more attention. I'm not accustomed to posting obvious or irrelevant questions or comments.
Title: Re: 3.15 Install land operation errors Sansa 280
Post by: Braverman on November 13, 2021, 09:59:16 AM
I see that point differently; you as a developer wouldn't use it for obvious reasons, but - this is only a guess - but I'm thinking 75% of the people who buy a player and hear about Rockbox WILL use The util, which makes it pretty important to either not have developers versions list or to do so with a warning.
I use it (didn't when I was testing the other versions), as I can never remember which version of the player I've connected.

I don't understand what you're complaining about. Can you be more specific? 

I'm not complaining, I whine often, but refrain from complaining.

I got the impression from a post by Bilgus that he didn't think the util was useful or should be used, I was commenting on the reason why I thought it should be paid attention to.

Rockbox Utility defaults to "Stable Release" if it hasn't been used before, and the build type used in the previous install if it has been used before (since it's likely you'd want that build type on the next install again -- especially if you installed a development build.) The build type is clearly shown in the version dropdown. It allows you to install the most recent development version too, and it's indicated as "Development Version". Next to the dropdown is a short explanation. If the player you're trying to install to doesn't have a released version it will fallback to selecting the development version. This usually happens when no new release has been made, but it has been updated to already support it (f.e.: right now this includes the AGPTek Rocker, since no release has been made for that player yet, and only if you use a development version of Rockbox Utility.)

Much ado about nothing, it was simply that I had commented the date of the dev release should be noted - as I didn't/couldn't/refused/didn't look/etc. to see it. I've seen the error of my ways and and retract that comment.

When installing using Rockbox Utility it will also create a log file that will allow to identify the installed version of all files. This is shown on the Info tab, and shows the installed version. For development versions there isn't a version number like for releases, so it uses the git hash instead. This allows to find outdated files (f.e. files that have been removed at some point, or renamed). Unsurprisingly this only works if you installed using Rockbox Utility -- if you unzipped the build yourself the log file doesn't know about this (unsurprisingly.)

Thanks for that info.

How do you think this could get improved?

No, quite functional - when the user pays attention.