Rockbox Technical Forums

Rockbox General => Announcements => Topic started by: Llorean on October 30, 2007, 05:45:13 PM

Title: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on October 30, 2007, 05:45:13 PM
To give warning, I'll be committing this patch (in its original form) this coming weekend: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7232

It makes a few changes to the Sansa keymap which allow more functions to be accessed with less finger movement, increases the consistency between screens on-target, and increases cross-target consistency.

The mapping may feel slightly awkward to those of you used to the original firmware. but it conforms better to some UI aspects that tend to be preserved between Rockbox targets. If there are any problems with this patch (other than "I don't like it", as I'm looking for objective objections) feel free to post here or in the task before I commit it.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: zajacattack on November 03, 2007, 04:01:29 PM
Here's my two sense:

(1) I like how Play/Pause stops playback. To me, logically, play starts and pause stops.

(2) The menu button and context menu button could be swapped easily; not a big deal to me.

(3) Select does have a function. While playing music, pushing it will return you to the last menu you were at. I do, however, think this should be changed to the menu button (bottom).
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 03, 2007, 11:26:37 PM
To address your points:

1) Stop is DIFFERENT from Pause. Play/Pause will still Pause. The presence of a "Stop" button is important to clear the playlist, as well as to allow voice playback to function while music is stopped (it cannot function while Paused currently, only while Playing or Stopped)

2) Okay

3) I never said "Select" doesn't have a function. Long Select (holding it down) currently doesn't, but will with the patch.

As I've said, many times and in many places, please TRY the patch before commenting. Point 3 would've been apparent to you, and probably point 1 as well had you tried it out.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: zajacattack on November 04, 2007, 01:25:39 PM
OK, I'm very sorry, I did not understand. Now, I think I see the purpose of this patch, and I'll try it out later today when I update (it was committed).
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: zwaldowski on November 04, 2007, 02:53:01 PM
While I understand that Rockbox is a multiplatform project, and it should be consistent on those platforms, shouldn't the buttons that have meaning printed on the case be used?  What I mean is, why shouldn't "play" mean "play" and power/menu take you to the menu and power it off.  It's not just a matter of those used to the OF, but rather those who can see their actual case.  To tell you the truth, I'm upset about it, but I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: AlexP on November 04, 2007, 05:13:13 PM
As someone who has multiple rockbox targets, in my opinion what is important is that the same button performs all the same actions within rockbox between different platforms.  Which button that is is not important.

I'll try and explain like this:

If on platform 1, button A performs action W in WPS and action X in the menu, and button B performs action Y in WPS and action Z in the menu, then on platform 2 the same should be true.

It is unimportant which physical button is A or B.

Where problems come is when on platform 2, button A performs action W in WPS and action Z in the menu, and button B performs action Y in WPS and action X in the menu.

All I should have to learn is which physical button is button A and which is B, not that button A and B change their function across platforms depending on what screen you are in.

As it happens (although I don't have a Sansa), it looks like these changes also improve the ability to operate one handed.  I would strongly urge you to try the new keymap before getting upset.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 04, 2007, 08:06:44 PM
The ONLY conflict with what's printed on (or in this case "near") the buttons is that the Power/Menu button is used solely for power, while the OTHER menu-ish button (it has no text, but several lines that could represent any sort of list) is used for the menu now.

The play button still performs the Play/Pause function just fine.

And yes, this does take a step toward what BigBambi described, though it's not going to be the first priority in any changes, it's in my clear opinion a goal when you have a choice between subjectively equal maps. (In this case, I feel there are also objective advantages to this map.)
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Rincewind on November 04, 2007, 08:17:51 PM
Obviously it is too late now to complain  :-\

Anyway. I liked the previous keymap better, because I am not a fan of holding buttons to get actions. It slows things down.
This means another small patch in my personal build to revert this change. If anyone is interested, I can put it on flyspray. But I don't think it's needed, a diff can be obtained through svn.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: zwaldowski on November 04, 2007, 09:06:46 PM
Fair enough, I'll try it.  I bet I'll end up liking it, but I'll only like it fully when I don't have to remember how to use the OF at all.  

However, I disagree with this statement:

It is unimportant which physical button is A or B.

There are two ways in which you are wrong:
- The "other user" factor.  Imagine a family member asks to use your PlayStation.  The screen says, "Press X to jump," but triangle in fact is the jump function.  That does not make sense; either the software or the hardware should change.  In other words, I'm asking you to look at this from a user viewpoint, not a power user/developer point:  How do I know what to press?  I won't look at the manual, so I'll just see what's on the case.
- The button problem.  You say it is important to have similar buttons no matter the target, however, unless you're using a similar line of products, the buttons will be different no matter what you use.  I know for a fact the Sansa e200's menu button is nowhere similar to the one on the iPod Nano, nor as on the iRiver.

So, active like Joe User, and you don't know what the buttons do, what else do you look to?  The buttons themselves.  You wouldn't click on the picture of a globe and expect your word processor to open; it's all about the metaphor.

All in all though, it doesn't look like too much of a problem now that it's been enumerated entirely, I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 04, 2007, 11:34:27 PM
What he means is that if a button is labeled "A" on the gigabeat, and "weird lines" on the sansa (note: these buttons serve different functions in SVN, this is just a hypothetical), if we chose "A" to go to the menu on the gigabeat, and "weird lines" to go to the menu on the Sansa, then what they both do once you're IN the menu should probably also be the same.

If you pick up ANY mouse, once you learn which button is "left click" and which button is "right click" (even if they're not on the left or right, in the case of odd input devices) you know what they'll do everywhere, because left click is consistent across the whole OS.

While this isn't possible on every player, everywhere, where it doesn't *impair* use, following this philosophy is beneficial, because it creates a sort of internal consistency. You can tell someone, when giving support, "press the button that resumes playback" and have a reasonable expectation of it working even if you have no idea what the physical layout of the device is, because you know that hopefully someone picked a reasonable button to resume playback, and the button that resumes playback also generally serves this other functionality they were asking about.

So, I think what he means by "it doesn't matter which physical button is A or B" means "They can pick whichever button is most appropriate to be A or B by player, but once they have, it should STAY A or B between screens, rather than in some screens being A and some screens being B, *unless* there is reason why staying consistent across screens impairs use."

@Rincewind: I announced it in the mailing list and here in the forums a week before committing, and there was lots of time to complain. Honestly, the only new thing that needs held down to access is the context menu, and for some people having it there improves usability (in my case vastly), so it's purely a subjective thing. As for posting it on the tracker, please don't. As has been said, many times, the tracker is for things that should be candidates for inclusion.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: AlexP on November 05, 2007, 03:09:39 AM
Llorean:  Yep, that is exactly what I meant.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: scharkalvin on November 05, 2007, 07:58:05 AM
Not all players have the same number of controls so some doubling up is required on some players to get the needed number of 'inputs'.

For example the ipods and the sansa have 5 buttons and a scroll wheel, but the sansa adds a power button.  This gives the sansa two extra inputs (press power and hold power).  The Gigabeat has 5 buttons on the front, 3 on the side (menu, power, "A") but no scroll wheel (though it DOES have the volume up/down).  Some of these buttons are duplicated by the wired remote control with actually works under rockbox!

I think the idea of mapping the player controls in a similar manor has it's merits and I support the idea.  The Sansa and Gigabeat players are similar enough, the iPods are the problem having fewer mappable inputs.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: AlexP on November 05, 2007, 09:32:30 AM
Not all players have the same number of controls so some doubling up is required on some players to get the needed number of 'inputs'.

I'm aware of this, and yes the iPod are a problem.  The gigabeat, iriver H1x0, H3x0, Sansa etc are fine.  However where physically possible, consistency between targets should be maintained (IMHO).

Some of these buttons are duplicated by the wired remote control with actually works under rockbox!

What do you mean, actually working like you are surprised?  ;D   The LCD remote, screen and all, on my H140 has been working in rockbox for years!
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: scharkalvin on November 05, 2007, 01:23:58 PM
Quote
What do you mean, actually working like you are surprised?  Grin   The LCD remote, screen and all, on my H140 has been working in rockbox for years!
My first impression of the Gigabeat remote hardware was that it must have used an undocumented serial protocol and I did not expect it to work with rockbox.   (compared to the H140 isn't the Gigabeat a newcomer?)   Also, only the F40 and F60 were shipped with this gizmo, I would have assumed that most of the rockbox porting work would have been done on the F10 and F20 units (as they were probably more available at the time).
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: GodEater on November 05, 2007, 01:30:24 PM
Also, only the F40 and F60 were shipped with this gizmo, I would have assumed that most of the rockbox porting work would have been done on the F10 and F20 units (as they were probably more available at the time).

Our experience has been that the F40 is way more prolific than any other model...
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: ONE_HUMAN on November 05, 2007, 10:00:56 PM
Obviously it is too late now to complain  :-\

Anyway. I liked the previous keymap better, because I am not a fan of holding buttons to get actions. It slows things down.
This means another small patch in my personal build to revert this change. If anyone is interested, I can put it on flyspray. But I don't think it's needed, a diff can be obtained through svn.

I don't like this change, in fact, I hate it.  I use the Power/Menu button a lot and in one-handed use, granted for a righty, it's much easier on the Sansa to press the Power/Menu button instead of the Down button for the Menu -- 1) because it's in a better location (further to the left and away from the ring), and 2) because it sits up higher (not as flush with the player surface).  Unfortunately one of the drawbacks on the Sansa is the buttons around the ring aren't as easy to use as they could be, but I know that isn't Rockbox's fault.

Sure, go ahead and post your patch.  Like you, I'm hesitant to use any future build without being able to revert back to the original button mapping.  And we aren't alone.  I'm sure many people who aren't capable of compiling their own patched build would benefit from your patch.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 05, 2007, 10:28:43 PM
If he were to post it as a patch, people would still need to compile their own builds to use it, making basically your entire reasoning behind your suggestion that he do so pointless.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: ONE_HUMAN on November 06, 2007, 12:04:41 AM
Yes, sorry.  I should have said they wouldn't have to develop the patch, only include it in their own custom compiled build.  And who knows, perhaps someone will make it available as an already compiled custom build as we've seen with some other custom builds.  So, not so pointless really.  As soon as I posted my last post, I knew I could count on you to make the comment you made.  Figured I'd just sit back and wait for it.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 06, 2007, 12:18:05 AM
You may not be aware of this, but because of the way SVN history works, anyone who can compile their own build has access to the patch (or rather an easier to use and maintain equivalent) already. All they have to do is revert that one file to the revision before the one where the change was made, and anyone who can compile their own build can either do this already, or will be able to understand when told the single command they'll need to type to do this.

So again, please don't encourage people to break the rules, we've had this discussion before. If you think a rule is changed, suggest appropriate changes, but until it is, don't break it or encourage people to.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: michael.conner on November 06, 2007, 05:33:54 PM
Thanks for committing this.  I used to use a Gigabeat and never got quite used to the Sansa's old key mapping.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: P.Opus on November 08, 2007, 07:08:38 PM
I guess I'll put in my .02 on this....

.01  Rockbox is awesome, and quite frankly I find it pretty ridiculous that someone would come into here and "demand" changes and otherwise be disrespectful when they are more than free to uninstall Rockbox if they are not satisfied.

.02 I know that this "bug" has been put into the system.  As has been mentioned before, the power button does not work when using an external power supply.  This affects playback in that when plugged into a charger, you can't stop playback.  You have to unplug the Sansa to "stop" playback.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: terrence1019 on November 09, 2007, 09:12:14 AM
ONE_HUMAN is right about certain points. The attitude of some Rockbox devs can be snobbish. You can hear it in the tone of their posts. I think while they're working on developing Rockbox, they can work on developing the attitudes at the same time.

Rockbox is a cool product, and thank God its free. But the excess baggage of snobbish attitudes is unwarranted.

But I have found a few good devs who have cool attitudes: like jdgordon, Badger, and MikeSevakis, and a few others I'm not ashamed to name.

But I do have a proposition: since Rockbox is all about customization and comfort, why don't you add an option for Keymap in the System settings?

There can be two system configuration options: Platform Specific Keymap, OR Multi-platform Keymap. By offering variety, as Rockbox has faithfully always done, this could end a lot of quarreling.

Anyways, this is just a proposition.

I anticipate the response.  8-)
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: terrence1019 on November 09, 2007, 09:24:16 AM
If find it interesting to use the mouse as an example of keymapping.

One reason is that with a mouse, they all more or less designed to be consistent across all PC platforms. This is Universal Compatibility.

On the other hand, MP3 players are not like this. I don't pick up an iPod, or a Gigabeat, and expect the same keymapping to be consistent . These players were designed to be unique and variable, and to generate a following for each different brand.

Also, with a mouse, their is the option in the PC settings to configure it for right hand or left hand users. This can be used to support my idea of Platform specific and Multi-platform keymaps settings.

But personally.... I like the new keymaps. Too cool (though some bugs need to be worked out). But I think we should all consider oppisitions to change, just as you consider the blind when changing the keymap. They are a voice too.

Besides: always expect opposition. I knew a lot of people were going to be annoyed with the change.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: AlexP on November 09, 2007, 10:43:07 AM
Please do not double post, this is in the posting guidelines you agree to when you signed up.

The example with the mouse fits perfectly with setting it up to be right or left handed.  Once I know which button is the "left" click, I know it will function as "left" click in all places.  Likewise once I know which button on an mp3 player functions as 'menu' in rockbox, I know it will do what I expect in all screens.  The point is, when you pick up an iPod or a gigabeat, they are completely different, agreed.  However that changes when you install rockbox, now they are just  different hardware running the same operating system.

Think of it this way - I have a Mac running OS X and a PC running Windows.  They work differently.  However if I install Windows on the Mac I expect them to work the same way except for when hardware differences make this impossible.  If the hardware allows it, they should function the same.

ONE_HUMAN is right about certain points. The attitude of some Rockbox devs can be snobbish. You can hear it in the tone of their posts. I think while they're working on developing Rockbox, they can work on developing the attitudes at the same time.

Rockbox is a cool product, and thank God its free. But the excess baggage of snobbish attitudes is unwarranted.

This is probably true - but some users could also do with some attitude work.  It goes both ways.  We do our best to provide unpaid, voluntary support in these forums, and it gets frustrating to have to answer the same questions repeatedly just because people don't read instructions properly or search at all.  It is also the same when a discussion such as this develops when we have essentially the same arguments being repeated over and over, and if you read some of the user posts (I'm naming no names), they have been hostile and abrasive from the start.  You are right, I (I wish to speak for no others here) can get frustrated and when this shows I am sorry (it certainly isn't snobbery of any kind).  However, there are some people who think it is their god-given right to be correct and get what they want, and they also need to change their attitudes.

But I do have a proposition: since Rockbox is all about customization and comfort, why don't you add an option for Keymap in the System settings?

There can be two system configuration options: Platform Specific Keymap, OR Multi-platform Keymap. By offering variety, as Rockbox has faithfully always done, this could end a lot of quarreling.

This just isn't going to happen, it would be a support nightmare.  We have enough people who can't manage to read the manual to find out what the correct keys are when they are fixed, imagine what would happen if they could accidently change them.  You can of course alter the keys yourself in the source (and it is a very easy area to change).

Besides: always expect opposition. I knew a lot of people were going to be annoyed with the change.

Yep, we too knew there would be a few who don't like it, and that is fine, so long as they remain civil.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: scorche on November 09, 2007, 01:53:06 PM
This has gotten way out of hand and has nothing to do with this thread.  In order to end this, I shall be blunt and to the point.  None of this should be interpreted as "rude", as there is no emotion inserted into this text.

Lets sum things up a bit.  This forum is provided so that we can offer free support for our free firmware.  We ask nothing of you except that you respect our rules and us and that you enjoy Rockbox.  If you do not wish to respect our rules, then you are free to not post here.  If are of the impression that some members of the community may be rude, then don't ask for their freely offered assistance.

There will be no more of this talk in this topic.  I mean this.  NONE.  If you have issues with any of our rules, you are free to start a new topic about this if you are willing to be civil about it and not hurl insults or offensive statements.  If you have an issue with a person, PM them about it and be civil.  Just because it is private, does not mean you can be even more offensive and threaten them.

This thread of conversation is over.  I shall be most unhappy if I see more of this in here.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: MarcGuay on November 19, 2007, 07:04:37 AM
Good morning folks,

I noticed a few inconsistencies with the new Sansa e200 keymapping the other day and posted a flyspray here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8169.  Anybody have any thoughts on this?  Unsure what the better place to discuss something like this is, but I get the feeling more people read the forums than check the tracker.

Bye now,
Marc

----

Hi Paul,

I noticed you made some changes but it still seems to be like a few things are a bit off:

- The power button in the radio screen now does nothing at all.  Is it possible to have it turn off the radio and return to the main menu or does the radio only get turned "off" by muting or playing sound files?  (And if so, how does that affect the voicing of menus?)

- In the recording screen the context menu is still accessed via the "main menu"/down button.  

Dog ciao,
Marc
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: bascule on November 21, 2007, 03:51:44 AM
The Sansa "power/menu" button is better or easier to use as the Rockbox "menu" button instead of the "down" button because:

1) Ergonomic location --  it's in a much better position for a right-handed person because of where the thumb naturally wants to sit when holding the player.

Have you tried using the player upside-down? Settings > General Settings > Display > LCD Settings > Upside Down

I use my Sansa like this for probably the same reasons you dislike the new keymap (uncomfortable ergonomics) and I find it works really well. It's always worth a try... ;)
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Febs on November 21, 2007, 07:38:09 AM
Because I use the "menu" button quite a bit, I'd prefer it to be in a location that is easy to use.  I don't know how to say it any better than that.  And I'm not the only one saying it.  Alas, it seems to be falling on deaf ears.  I dislike this keymapping change enough that I'm continuing to use an old build of Rockbox.  That should say something.

Yes.  It says that some people don't like the keymap.  The same is true of EVERY keymap decision that has ever been made on this project.   It is literally impossible to make button assignments that meet with unanimous approval and so that is not our goal.  Our goal is to make button decisions that make sense in the context of using Rockbox on a particular platform and where possible with consistency from platform to platform.

Now, if I could ever get my wife to let me use our Sansa for a while, I could see what I think of this change ...   ::)
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: MarcGuay on November 22, 2007, 09:26:56 AM
Apparently I'm the only one who still thinks the keymap is an interesting subject.  On the recording screen, the context menu is still out of sync with the rest of the interface.  The old down-menu button = context menu is still in effect; it should be changed to a long-select.  

I think that whole screen needs to be redone actually because the scroll wheel acting as a menu control instead of a increment-slider (like the volume in the WPS) for the Volume and Gain is really awkward.  Anyway, not as interesting as watching goats butt heads I suppose...

Peach,
Marc
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 22, 2007, 01:02:28 PM
That's the "Menu" for the Radio part of the code, not really the "Context Menu", and having it on the button that brings up the main menu elsewhere is actually in line with the way Rockbox expects to work, at least right now. Personally, I'm not happy with the overall way the Radio screen works either, but I'd rather figure out a general improvement to the radio screen than start introducing further divergences in how it works right now.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: MarcGuay on November 22, 2007, 02:31:55 PM
A few clinks in the manual...

1)  Recording Screen

Submenu:  Exit Recording Screen. While recording: Stop recording.
Submenu:  Open Recording Settings (see section 9).

- The first entry should be "Power" instead of "Submenu".

2)  FM Radio Screen
 
Power:  Leave the radio screen with the radio playing. Stops the radio and returns to Main Menu.
Submenu:  Displays the FM radio settings menu.
 
- Power should just be "Stops the radio and returns to Main Menu."
- Submenu should be "Returns to the main menu".
- Long-select should be "Displays the FM Radio Menu"
- Short-select should be "Display the presets list"

I'll post it in flyspray if you want... Just figured you'd be following this thread anyway...
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 22, 2007, 06:42:04 PM
Could you compile a current manual and check? The manual is updated daily, and I'm nearly certain that I changed some of those at least already.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: MarcGuay on November 23, 2007, 07:45:22 AM
Not sure exactly how this works but I just checked the November 23rd build of the manual and the errors I mentionned above are still there.

Holler,
Marc
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 23, 2007, 08:00:01 AM
Alright, I found both problems I think.

The FM keymap is kept in an entirely different place, and handled quite differently, from the rest of the e200 keymaps, so while changing how the keys were defined it didn't affect that part of the manual.

The other one, I'm quite sure I changed locally, but must've somehow reverted or not saved before making one of the commits.

Both changes should be in the next daily version of the manual. If you notice any other errors, let me know, but it's always better to post to flyspray, as many people can fix the manual, and they go to flyspray and look for errors in the manual category.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: terrence1019 on November 25, 2007, 02:13:06 AM
Was there any consideration for adding an option for Preset/Scan to the FM Radio Menu?  ???
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on November 25, 2007, 02:37:42 AM
This thread is about the keymap.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Nemesis02 on December 03, 2007, 01:01:05 AM
I think a better idea than just changing it for everyone would probably keeping a profile for different players.  Having different players be able to select the profile of key mapping they want, whether it be the old profile or the new one.  A sort of switch and a reboot would be required to commit the changes.  Could be something in the settings that could be changed.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: thomasjservo on January 20, 2008, 03:31:31 PM
Hi, sorry for arriving late for the party but I have a few comments on the new keymap.

First, I don't have a big problem with it in principle, it's not a huge change and if it makes cross platform developing and use easier, so be it.

That being said the new keymap takes away some of the functionality of the original, specifically on the fly playlisting. By changing the context menu button's function you took this away and I can't find another way to do it.

Is there a work around on this or plans to address this?
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on January 20, 2008, 03:36:45 PM
Please read the manual. As I've said in many places, the new keymap is documented. I did not remove ANY functionality. Every "function" that had a button before, can still be accessed.

Try a long-press of select.
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: thomasjservo on January 20, 2008, 03:46:02 PM
Beautiful. I appreciate the quick reply. Thanks.

Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: MarcGuay on January 31, 2008, 09:22:45 PM
That's the "Menu" for the Radio part of the code, not really the "Context Menu", and having it on the button that brings up the main menu elsewhere is actually in line with the way Rockbox expects to work, at least right now. Personally, I'm not happy with the overall way the Radio screen works either, but I'd rather figure out a general improvement to the radio screen than start introducing further divergences in how it works right now.

Argh, I really, truly, hate bringing this thread back up to the top of the list, but I was just poking around the menus while writing out the MenuLayoutDiscussion (http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MenuLayoutDiscussion) wiki page and noticed that the "FM Radio Menu" and "Recording Settings" screens are brought up by different buttons, when intuition says it should be the same.  I realize that you think there are bigger issues on the table (and I agree), but in the meantime there is something a little off here.  

Flyspray: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8542
Title: Re: Sansa e200/e200R: Keymap change.
Post by: Llorean on January 31, 2008, 10:11:37 PM
This is more or less a "fundamental design problem" I think. As in, they're on different buttons on other targets too, if I recall correctly, and fixing it is more of a case of improving both of those UIs, I think.