Embedded cuesheets

[philibuster]

I know rockbox supports external cuesheets for files, but I am wondering if embedded cuesheets will ever be supported for flac or other file types.  

Is there talk of getting the cuesheet reader to read the cuesheet block in the file?

Thanks for all your help.

[linuxstb]

Yes, implementing embedded cuesheet support for FLAC is something I would like to add.

However, I don't have any such files (I split all my FLACs into tracks), and am curious how the metadata (track names, artists etc) are handled in such files.

Is there a convention for tagging multiple tracks in vorbis comments?  What's the default behaviour of common tools like EAC and foobar?

[philibuster]

I think ogg is a whole different animal from flac.  Ogg uses chained streams while flac has a cuesheet block.  I may be wrong, but I think they're fundamentally different.  

http://flac.sourceforge.net/format.html#metadata_block_cuesheet
details how the format works in flac.

I can send a test flac with test tones if you'd like.

The tag "cuesheet" is what foobar2000 reads, but there is a different spec for the cuesheet metadata block.

This is how foobar writes the tags for multiple values per file (these are output using the function "--export-tags-to=" with metaflac):

Code: [Select]

cue_track01_ALBUM=track 1 album title
cue_track01_ALBUM ARTIST=track one album artist
cue_track01_artist=Artist track 1
cue_track01_COMMENT=comments for track two
cue_track01_COMPOSER=track one composer
cue_track01_DATE=track one date
cue_track01_DISCNUMBER=track one disc number
cue_track01_GENRE=track one genre
cue_track01_PERFORMER=track one performer
cue_track02_ALBUM=track two album
cue_track02_ALBUM ARTIST=track two album artist
cue_track02_artist=track two artist
cue_track02_COMMENT=comments for track two
cue_track02_COMPOSER=track two composer
cue_track02_DATE=track two date
cue_track02_DISCNUMBER=999
cue_track02_GENRE=track two genre
cue_track02_PERFORMER=track two performer
cue_track02_TOTALDISCS=track two disc
cue_track03_ALBUM=track three album
cue_track03_ALBUM ARTIST=track three album artist
cue_track03_ARTIST=track three artist
cue_track03_COMMENT=track three comments
cue_track03_COMPOSER=track three composer
cue_track03_DATE=track three date
cue_track03_DISCNUMBER=track three disc number
cue_track03_GENRE=track three genre
cue_track03_PERFORMER=track three performer
cue_track03_TOTALDISCS=track three total discs
cuesheet=FILE "CDImage.wav" WAVE

  TRACK 01 AUDIO

    TITLE "track 1 title"

    PERFORMER "Artist track 1"

    REM DATE track one date

    INDEX 01 00:00:00

  TRACK 02 AUDIO

    TITLE "track two title"

    PERFORMER "track two artist"

    REM DATE track two date

    INDEX 01 00:20:00

  TRACK 03 AUDIO

    TITLE "track three title"

    PERFORMER "track three artist"

    REM DATE track three date

    INDEX 01 00:40:00


totaltracks=3

This is what the option "--export-cuesheet-to=" using metaflac gives:

Code: [Select]

FILE "tones.flac" FLAC
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 0
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 882000
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 1764000
REM FLAC__lead-in 0
REM FLAC__lead-out 3 2880000

I think it would be best to read the cuesheet tag rather than the cuesheet metadata block, although the metadata block tells the number of samples rather than frames, as the tag tells you.

[linuxstb]

Thanks for the info.

"vorbis comments" is the tagging format used in FLAC files, I wasn't talking about Ogg files (vorbis comments are used there as well though).

Why do you think it's better to read the cuesheet tag?  The FLAC specification seems to be encouraging the use of the CUESHEET block along with tags like the cue_trackNN* tags foobar is adding.

Also, do you know of any applications apart from foobar with support for FLACs with embedded cues?

[Llorean]

My personal vote is to comply with the set standard, which in this case is the cuesheet block.

[philibuster]

"vorbis comments" is the tagging format used in FLAC files, I wasn't talking about Ogg files (vorbis comments are used there as well though).

oh... right.

Why do you think it's better to read the cuesheet tag?  The FLAC specification seems to be encouraging the use of the CUESHEET block along with tags like the cue_trackNN* tags foobar is adding.

I think it's better to read the cuesheet tag solely because that's what foobar does. But in the name of compliance, it's probably better to read the cuesheet block.

Just thinking about it again, I think that reading the cuesheet tag is easier because it uses the min:sec:frames that all cuesheets use and thus can use the same cuesheet parser that the cuesheet file reader uses.

But I just looked at another cuesheet from the "--export-cuesheet-to=" option, and it says this:

Code: [Select]

FILE "Danielson Famile - Tri-Danielson.flac" FLAC
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:21:44
    INDEX 01 00:21:45
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 03:19:11
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 05:05:31
    INDEX 01 05:05:32
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 07:12:42
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 10:12:63
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 11:49:03
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 15:25:13
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 18:32:68
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 22:06:00
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 28:21:02
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 32:12:23
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 33:56:53
REM FLAC__lead-in 88200
REM FLAC__lead-out 170 103261032

Curiously, this one is in min:sec:frames, while the other one was in samples.  I don't know why.  Perhaps because the other one was 48khz sampling, and this one is 44.1khz (cd source). Wow, cuesheets are kind of crazy...

Also, do you know of any applications apart from foobar with support for FLACs with embedded cues?

Nope... Not any players, but burrrn (http://www.burrrn.net) supports it.

[adam917]

"vorbis comments" is the tagging format used in FLAC files, I wasn't talking about Ogg files (vorbis comments are used there as well though).

oh... right.

Why do you think it's better to read the cuesheet tag?  The FLAC specification seems to be encouraging the use of the CUESHEET block along with tags like the cue_trackNN* tags foobar is adding.

I think it's better to read the cuesheet tag solely because that's what foobar does. But in the name of compliance, it's probably better to read the cuesheet block.

Just thinking about it again, I think that reading the cuesheet tag is easier because it uses the min:sec:frames that all cuesheets use and thus can use the same cuesheet parser that the cuesheet file reader uses.

But I just looked at another cuesheet from the "--export-cuesheet-to=" option, and it says this:

Code: [Select]

FILE "Danielson Famile - Tri-Danielson.flac" FLAC
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:21:44
    INDEX 01 00:21:45
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 03:19:11
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 05:05:31
    INDEX 01 05:05:32
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 07:12:42
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 10:12:63
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 11:49:03
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 15:25:13
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 18:32:68
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 22:06:00
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 28:21:02
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 32:12:23
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 33:56:53
REM FLAC__lead-in 88200
REM FLAC__lead-out 170 103261032

Curiously, this one is in min:sec:frames, while the other one was in samples.  I don't know why.  Perhaps because the other one was 48khz sampling, and this one is 44.1khz (cd source). Wow, cuesheets are kind of crazy...

Also, do you know of any applications apart from foobar with support for FLACs with embedded cues?

Nope... Not any players, but burrrn (http://www.burrrn.net) supports it.

Well, Cuesheets were initially created only for CD burning layout. I never seen them Cuesheet tags in a FLAC file but I know the standard is that metadata block that specifies samples & no artist/title/composer.

[mc_365]

I am just getting into flac (Lossless) mainly do to the falling ratio of $/GB on HDs

I don't know to much about Cue sheet block and such, I've delayed archiving my library as I research pros and cons and tools.

I found the most knowlegeable place for any flac info (tech specs), to be hydrogenaudio's fourms.

Many developers of flac ecoders and decoders and tagging tools like metamp3 frequent this site and are very helpful with wide range of questions.

Most likely many of you devs know of this site but just chiming in.

Thanks to all of you who make rockbox