sound on Sansa e200

[cpchan]

Hold off for an hour or so. I am building a new version now after seeing the fix for "tinniness" in SVN.

Charles

[daniel2023]

You should always expect distortion above 0dB. At and below 0dB, with a flat equalizer there shouldn't be any. Is there?

Yeah, I was talking about 4+ dB, the very highest, but I didn't know distortion was to be the norm above 0 dB.

[cpchan]

but I didn't know distortion was to be the norm above 0 dB.

This is only for digital audio and not analog. Please read the clipping part here:

http://www.teamcombooks.com/mp3handbook/11.htm

Charles

[major_works]

OK, thanks... that helps a lot.

I won't be able to try the fix until later... does it really help? More bass?

I just got the newest svn, and sound quality is incredibly better.  Very full sound -- I think the max volume is much louder too.  The distortion is a lot less, though there is still some at the highest levels.  On earbuds, I can't max out the volume anymore, because it blows out my ear -- that means it should work well for my car hookup, which is usually too soft to hear.

Only issue at first glance is slight popping/clicks (usually when changing volume -- faster equals more clicks)

Congrats on the improvement.  Great job guys and keep up the good work!

Oh yeah... just updated... this is a MAJOR improvement. I'm hearing everything Daniel2023 did. Much fuller sound for sure; I'd had the bass kicked up to 6 dB and I had to back that way down. As to volume, I typically would listen at about -4 dB with my Shure e2C IEMs. That's much too loud now and I find -13 dB to -10 dB to be my comfort level for most listening.

And yes, I am also hearing clicking at anything above 0 dB. I will have to flatten all EQ settings for a definitive test at that level to see if I'm hearing distortion.

Thanks so much to the developers... Rockbox on the Sansa is coming together much more rapidly than expected.

[Llorean]

cpchan: What exactly was your point, your quote is unclear as to who you're saying is wrong, and specifically, why you think that document explains that one of us is wrong.

[cpchan]

cpchan: What exactly was your point, your quote is unclear as to who you're saying is wrong, and specifically, why you think that document explains that one of us is wrong.

My point is that analog media does not clip the same way as digital media does. I quote from this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war):

Analog media, on the other hand, "bend" the signal as it exceeds its saturation point (also marked as 0dB). Such distortion can be utilized in the digital realm as well, either by transferring audio processed with tape or valve saturation to a digital recording medium, or by using computer software to emulate the effect (this process is often referred to as "bitcrunching" or "soft clipping"). This analog distortion results in harmonics that can appear to the listener as a discreet "crackle" or "fuzz" within the sound. The effect can vary depending on the sound itself, as well as the amount and kind of distortion used. Because analog distortion doesn't "flatline" to the extent that clipping does, the results are less harsh-sounding and can result in a desirable "warmth" to the recording, at the cost of slightly less transient response.

Charles

[Llorean]

Yes, and MP3s are digital media.

[cpchan]

Yes, and MP3s are digital media.

Yes, I know. That is why I made the distinction between digital and analog in my post.

Charles

[Llorean]

Well the thing is, even the quotation you made points out that above 0dB, analog also distorts but it's not the same sort of distortion, and some people consider it pleasant. Both distort, it's just different types of distortion, so the fact that you say it's ontly for digital is incorrect.

[saratoga]

cpchan: What exactly was your point, your quote is unclear as to who you're saying is wrong, and specifically, why you think that document explains that one of us is wrong.

My point is that analog media does not clip the same way as digital media does. I quote from this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war):

1)  That has nothing to do with anything in this thread.
2)  Its still clipping, so the distinction is rather pointless.

Edit:  bah, another crappy link that draws PCM with straight lines between the points.  I wish people who don't understand what a DAC does would stop writing about them.

[cpchan]

Both distort, it's just different types of distortion, so the fact that you say it's ontly for digital is incorrect.

Yes, you are correct. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I don't want to give out false info.  

Charles

[Llorean]

Well, being "Technical forums", technicalities do hold some importance here.

[vinnie97]

Congrats and thanks to those hard at work behind the scenes...I echo the reports about the massively improved bass and volume response!  This thing has kick in my Koss PortaPros now.

[Vagabund]

Thanks also from me, but i can hear now a very strong electrical background noise. OK i have inear plugs (UltimateEars superfi 5 pro) with a higher output as the normal earphones. The original sansa FW has also the problem but only if the player is loading songs in the memory. The patched RB http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12583 does have the problem also while the display and the wheel led is on. I can also hear a noise in a 1sec. beat (like morse). Is this problem in the future resolvable?

Thanks
Michael

[Vortex]

The original sansa FW has also the problem but only if the player is loading songs in the memory.

It's the same for me in Rockbox. The background noise goes away after the player finished loading a song, so it's only audible at the beginning of each song...