MP3 Patents and Rockbox

[Febs]

It looks like there is at least one registered patent for Vorbis:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=vorbis&OS=vorbis&RS=vorbis

Edit:  nevermind, I'm very wrong.  They simply refer to Vorbis in the description of the patent as an example of audio compression.

[JonathanHull]

Edit:  nevermind, I'm very wrong.  They simply refer to Vorbis in the description of the patent as an example of audio compression.

I was gonna say... if Vorbis is referred to in the patent wouldn't it be prior art anyway.

[Llorean]

I believe Vorbis itself is patent free. What this does NOT mean though is that some aspect of it could not be claimed to infringe on an existing patent for another technology.

Some aspect of its compression method, for example, could be shown to infringe on an existing patent, at which point someone would have to spend a rather tidy sum to defend it even if the claim were baseless.

[daniel54]

I believe Vorbis itself is patent free. What this does NOT mean though is that some aspect of it could not be claimed to infringe on an existing patent for another technology.

Some aspect of its compression method, for example, could be shown to infringe on an existing patent, at which point someone would have to spend a rather tidy sum to defend it even if the claim were baseless.

Thank you! That explains it!  8-) That makes alot of sense, someone probably will then!  

[bascule]

From: http://www.vorbis.com/

Ogg Vorbis is a completely open, patent-free, professional audio encoding and streaming technology with all the benefits of Open Source.

As Llorean said, you are absolutely correct. The problem is, given sufficient incentive (i.e., money or market share), there's plenty of companies would argue that vorbis infringes 'their' patents purely by the fact that it works in a similar way, uses similar technology and algorithms and ends up with a similar product. And of course, lawyers are masters at stringing out a case until the little guy runs out of money or just caves in...

[JonathanHull]

Unfortunately that is true and actually happens. Even if you are doing something legit someone who disagrees with you and has a lot more money to throw around can shut you down in a heart beat...

The best we can do is to use what we know is safe  and hope that no one challenges it. And if they do, hope there is someone else with just as much cash to throw around to back it up.

[AlexP]

Does the fact that the core devs are in Europe, and the website is in Europe (Sweden), and many users are not in the States help?  I know the US seems to think its laws override those of other countries, but they don't - however does that mean there would be a differentiation between US and non-US users, or is all this irrelevant?

I don't say this bash the US, but am honestly asking as a lot of this discussion in about US law and patents when Rockbox is non-US (on the whole, I know some devs are American).

[saratoga]

Does the fact that the core devs are in Europe, and the website is in Europe (Sweden), and many users are not in the States help?  I know the US seems to think its laws override those of other countries, but they don't - however does that mean there would be a differentiation between US and non-US users, or is all this irrelevant?

I don't think it really matters.  Rockbox isn't a company.  It has no money, so theres no point in trying to rob it.

I don't say this bash the US, but am honestly asking as a lot of this discussion in about US law and patents when Rockbox is non-US (on the whole, I know some devs are American).

I don't know how it works in the EU, but I do know that Sandisk is involved in a complicated European MP3 licensing lawsuit, so its probably similar.  Though I doubt its quite as ridiculous as the US presently is.