MP3 Patents and Rockbox

[Speedforneed]

With the recent MP3 patent lawsuits and all, I've been wondering how much it could affect Rockbox.  Any thoughts on this?  Does it even apply?

[Krellion]

From the Wikipedia MP3 article:

"Additionally, patent holders declined to enforce license fees on open source decoders, allowing many free MP3 decoders to develop. Furthermore, while attempts have been made to discourage distribution of encoder binaries, Thomson has stated that individuals using free MP3 encoders are not required to pay fees. Thus while patent fees have been an issue for companies attempting to use MP3, they have not meaningfully impacted users, allowing the format to grow in popularity."

I see this as meaning that Rockbox has nothing to worry about.

[bascule]

I see this as meaning that Rockbox has nothing to worry about.

I don't see that at all. The point of the recent lawsuit was that a second party is claiming rights over the format. If agreement cannot be reached it is possible (although perhaps not probable) that the second party will harshly enforce its rights, effectively making the MP3 format unusable by anyone without risk of prosecution.

[Llorean]

And then those of us who ripped from CDs, and used an unencumbered format willl laugh and laugh.

At the moment though, all we can do is wait and see.

[GodEater]

It'll be GIF/PNG all over again.

[JonathanHull]

I was thinking this same thing.

I also heard that this week there is another company (not lucent/whoever) who is sueing over different patents. They are suing Apple, Samsung, and Sandisk if I remember correctly.

So if there are 3 companies who own rights to MP3 patents, and only one "says" they aren't going to sue free codecs, I would think there is at least a little bit of concern that is valid.

And if I understand the GPL correctly, any patent could invalidate the use of the codec, whether it is enforced or not.


Could this be the big break for OGG/Vorbis and AAC? :-P

[bascule]

And then those of us who ripped from CDs, and used an unencumbered format willl laugh and laugh.

Could this be the big break for OGG/Vorbis and AAC? :-P

Yes and Yes 

[Llorean]

AAC is fairly patented as well, though, I thought.

[JonathanHull]

AAC is fairly patented as well, though, I thought.

Hmm. I've always heard of AAC as an "open standard". It's an MPEG standard anyway.

From the wikipedia article on AAC:
"In contrast with the MP3 format, which requires royalty payments on distributed content, no licenses or payments are required to be able to stream or distribute content in AAC format.  ... However, a patent license is required for all manufacturers or developers of AAC codecs. [4] It is for this reason FOSS implementations such as FAAC and FAAD are distributed in source form only, in order to avoid patent infringement."

Ok, so not as open as I thought.

OGG/Vorbis FTW!

[saratoga]

AAC is fairly patented as well, though, I thought.

Hmm. I've always heard of AAC as an "open standard". It's an MPEG standard anyway.

MP3 and AAC are both open standards under the MPEG group.  They're both heavily patented.

From the wikipedia article on AAC:
"In contrast with the MP3 format, which requires royalty payments on distributed content, no licenses or payments are required to be able to stream or distribute content in AAC format.  ... However, a patent license is required for all manufacturers or developers of AAC codecs. [4] It is for this reason FOSS implementations such as FAAC and FAAD are distributed in source form only, in order to avoid patent infringement."

Ok, so not as open as I thought.

OGG/Vorbis FTW!

The degree of openness has nothing to do with the number of patents.  An open format is just one thats documented and open to other people to use (potentially at cost).  A free format is one that open to use, free of charge.

AAC and MP3 are both open, but not free.

However, as this case shows, nothing is safe from patent infringement claims.

[Llorean]

I'm sure if OGG/Vorbis became widespread enough, someone would begin pursuing patent claims on it in some manner or another.

[saratoga]

I'm sure if OGG/Vorbis became widespread enough, someone would begin pursuing patent claims on it in some manner or another.

Indeed.  The scary thing here is that since MS has stepped up and vowed to fight this thing for as long as it takes to win, this case will probably encourage people to use MP3 since they know MS is fitting the bill to protect it.  While with Vorbis, they've got no such protection from the broken US patent system.

[daniel54]

I can see vorbis becoming the standard because it is patient-free,

Although wouldn't vorbis stay gpl, to start pursuing patent claims on it would mean the license would have to change.

[saratoga]

I can see vorbis becoming the standard because it is patient-free,

In the US, nothing is really patent free unless you've got a fortune to spend defending it.  And even that isn't always enough (see first post of this thread and MS's bank accounts)

Although wouldn't vorbis stay gpl, to start pursuing patent claims on it would mean the license would have to change.

The license doesn't make any difference at all.  Its just the agreement to use the encoder or decoder source code.

[daniel54]

From: http://www.vorbis.com/

Ogg Vorbis is a completely open, patent-free, professional audio encoding and streaming technology with all the benefits of Open Source.

Is that information true in the usa?
Have I missed something? Sorry I'm new to all this (that what I get for being 16!  )

I would make the switch to ogg as soon as rockbox comes out on the 80GB iPod, I miss the format!   [/offtopic]