Re: Constuctive suggestion/Attracting more users/Install theme with first launch

[JdGordon]

A default set of settings is already used if config.cfg isnt there, but the defaults are hard coded, there is no reason why those defaults couldnt be different for different targets, just needs someone to come up with good workable defaults.

Spug: iirc it was planned to eventually move that file into .rockbox, I dunno why it hasnt happened yet tho.

[Llorean]

On many players you can put rockbox.target IN the .rockbox folder and still have everything behave normally (iRiver HXXX series and iPods at least).

[pabouk]

A default set of settings is already used if config.cfg isnt there, but the defaults are hard coded, there is no reason why those defaults couldnt be different for different targets, just needs someone to come up with good workable defaults.

I think that some default settings should be always hard-coded into the kernel so the firmware can run without any additional files but I prefer the concept with default.cfg (in addition to the hard-coded settings) which is much more transparent. With default.cfg the default configuration could be changed without recompiling the kernel and the user can easily check the default configuration using just a text viewer. It would also allow comparison of current and default config using diff or some plug-in.

I see just one potential problem - the reset settings function. It should probably load the hard-coded defaults in order that the user could always reset to a know configuration (default.cfg could be changed).

Excuse me for off-topic but I am very curious about this:

My thought was that there could be a default.cfg and a current.cfg. If current.cfg does not exist, default is used, but user's settings are stored in current.cfg instead. So, a clean install gets default.cfg, but user settings are never overwritten because current.cfg isn't included.

Then you can easily package target-specific settings, that way.

Llorean repeated almost exactly what I wrote in the previous message (with a new good idea of renaming config.cfg to current.cfg):

The current code does not really support default configuration in a file. I think that Rockbox should check for the presence of config.cfg and only if the file is not found it should load default.cfg which could be easily shipped with the firmware.

I know that my English is bad but is it so bad that my messages are not understandable?

[Llorean]

Rockbox cannot run without the .rockbox folder anyway on most targets as the codecs are needed. The Archos targets are an exception. But only the current defaults need be hardcoded, target-specific ones can be in the file.

The user shouldn't ever change default.cfg. There's no reason to. If the current.cfg exists, you'll boot into it without it ever reading the default.cfg file, so there's no concern regarding resetting the settings. And there will still be the hardcoded defaults, which aren't target specific, just in case.

Basically, boot would look like this:
Does current.cfg exist?
Yes - Load current.cfg
No - Does default.cfg exist?
Yes - Load default.cfg
No - Load the current default settings.

When you shut down current.cfg is saved. Default is never changed unless the user manually opens it in a text editor, and it's never loaded unless current.cfg doesn't exist.

[JdGordon]

I dont see the point of default.cfg... everything that can be done in it would be easily done in the code, with the advantage that "good" settings are applied if .rockbox doesnt exist, and eliminates the question of what to do when the user resets

[Llorean]

default.cfg can very easily be tweaked and modified for target-specific settings without having to have ifdefs in the code.

As well, a user can create a known good .cfg setup, and if they choose to Reset their settings have it fall back to their personal known good rather than to some hard default.

[JdGordon]

ok, well im indifferent then i guess, except I dont think this is really needed anymore anyway, seen as now the only time settings will be reset is if the user asks for it. Had we discussed this before the config block removal it would have been easy to see the advantage

[Llorean]

Yes, but part of this is target-specific defaults.

iPod 5G probably should not have the same default font as the Archos Recorder, for example.

Having a default.cfg allows a different one to be packaged with each build to easily load defaults that are appropriate to the hardware, and is still customizable so that if say... a user sets their colors all wrong, or mashes random things in their pockets, and wants to clear their settings, it can clear to that file which is something they've tested and no is good.

We're talking user initiated clearings here.

[bluebrother]

I indeed was referring to rockbox., and that isn't hidden in the default view. Maybe it would be good to remove that from the default "supported" view, or change the default view to "music" ... having the firmware file startable is nice for testing, but I'm pretty sure the average user will never need it.

[Llorean]

There is a plan to move rockbox.target into /.rockbox/. The bootloaders on the iRiver HXXX series and iPods allow rockbox.target to be hidden in the /.rockbox/ folder safely. It just needs to finish being rolled out like that.

[Spug]

In that case, great!

[PHK Brasil]

♪

Yes, I agree. A lot of people install Rockbox and after five minutes draft experienced, they uninstall, reverting back to original firmware, taking a missed and bad impression of Rockbox

That's why I attached some essential infos, IMO, on all my tutorials http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=8339.msg64940#msg64940

I think there are 3 relevant points:

1) The WPS theme/fonts is out of doubt, the 1st important.

2) But, at least For iPod users, the rebuild database info is very helpfully, cause most of "initial" users will prefer to rebuild the database, to work in harmony with iTunes/iPod, instead of drag and drop all your data, abandoning the Apple method of navigation.

3) Many people interested in trying Rockbox do not know that will be easily possible to alternate between the original firmware and Rockbox OS. This information is sufficiently tranquilizer.


It is clearly that for everything this, exists a thing called: MANUAL. But if at least these basic information could be emphasized right in the Installation page, Rockbox will have much more users, certainly.

♪

[Nate!]

This topic is so important.  I don't have anything to add.  I just know I've seen many in the Gigabeat community who try this great piece of software only to sort of flame the effort after seeing the initial view.  Grant it, said people apparently don't bother reading other posts nor the manual which explicitly state the need for customization after install.

 I sincerely believe that creating targeted default configs would definately further the Rockbox community.

[Chronon]

Maybe the default theme could have a background prominently displaying RTFM!