Playlist: Centre button or Right could Insert instead of Play?

[pablored]

I know that user interface issues are highly personal, and closely linked to individual usage.  Also I can only talk from my experience on the iPod.  But I don't think I can be the only one who find it frustrating having to hold the centre button in the click wheel to access the playlist functions.  

It is fine, until you have spent ages setting up a list of tracks for an afternoon only to wipe it with a slightly too short key press.  My ideal scenario would be for the centre button to be insert (but that is just for me, I guess most prefer that as Play).. but there is duplication in the Right button also acting as Play.  Could that be Insert?

I have played with the Party mode, but that isn't quite there.  It would need Insert as one of the two buttons... and MOST importantly the ability to queue directories.  

Does this make sense to anyone else?

--> I guess it does, by searching more I found this.  But does anyone know if it works for the iPod?  http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/2653

Regards
Paul

[Febs]

It is fine, until you have spent ages setting up a list of tracks for an afternoon only to wipe it with a slightly too short key press.

Turn on the "Warn When Erasing Dynamic Playlists" setting:

Main Menu --> Playlist Options --> Warn When Erasing Dynamic Playlists

[ryran]

I hear ya febs, and I know this has come up before... but I totally agree. In a perfect world, I would wish that the select button could be set to insert.

[Febs]

Personally,  I think that it makes much more sense for the "Select" button to select, and the "Right" button to insert, but I agree that functionality would be useful.  I just wanted to point out that the capability currently exists to prevent the accidental erasing of a playlist by mistiming a button press.

[Llorean]

I've actually spoken in favour of Select selecting and Right inserting in the past (right's MUCH easier to accidentally hit on say H100 series anyway, but also easy to hit multiple times quickly for inserting several files).

[soap]

I'm assuming right would move you deeper into the directory tree until you get to a file, at which point it would act as "insert"?
If this is so, how would you insert an entire directory?

[Febs]

There are two ways this could work:

1.  Since right and play are currently redundant, right could be dedicated to inserting to playlist.  So, if one were to hit right on a folder, the folder would be inserted.  Select would be used to open a folder rather than inserting it.

or

2.  The "quick insert" could operate only on files, so that right and play would both open folders, and right would only be used to insert files.

Personally, I would prefer #1 for two reasons.  First, it is more functional.  Second, I don't see any need to have functionality duplicated on two separate buttons when one of those buttons could be used for something else.

[pablored]

Thanks for the replies.  Once again I can only comment on use on a Nano.

I had been using the select (centre button) to always open directories, but from a logical point of view left and right probably make more sense for movement through the structure.  Especially if that Left to WPS patch is heading towards inclusion.  I was used to the other manner from Apple I guess.  

Also, it follows that you never need to play a directory.  So play could be best as being the fast forward/right  button (given that play is already taken).  To play a track you would move forward through the structure, pressing the same button to play it at the end.. or move to the centre button to insert into the playlist at any point (directory or file).  Holding this down would bring up the usual playlist menu.   It would be easy to document as a playlist button, perhaps the short press option could even be definable from the long press list?

Option 1 from Febs is also great, I just wonder about which would make most sense to a new user and heads towards the most consistent overall.  The above suggestion just swaps the buttons.  

This is really tricky though isn't it, due to what people have got used to and the different button layouts on different players.  Different spaces between buttons and all that affecting usability.  I've only just started using Rockbox this last month, and love the playlist functions.  Just wish there was a simple way to fix the keymap.  

Thanks Febs for the pointer to the Playlist Options, that should stop some frustration in the meantime.  

Paul

[Febs]

Especially if that Left to WPS patch is heading towards inclusion.

I think that it is safe to say that the "left to WPS patch" will *never* be included in Rockbox.  There is very strong opposition to the concept among some of the core developers, for several very good reasons that are explained in the thread on that patch.  (Among other things, (1) the file browser is Rockbox's main screen so the concept doesn't make much sense, (2) it would make navigation more difficult for blind users, and (3) the "play" button already goes to WPS from the file browser, so it is unnecessary.)

Also, it follows that you never need to play a directory.  So play could be best as being the fast forward/right  button (given that play is already taken).  To play a track you would move forward through the structure, pressing the same button to play it at the end.. or move to the centre button to insert into the playlist at any point (directory or file).  Holding this down would bring up the usual playlist menu.   It would be easy to document as a playlist button, perhaps the short press option could even be definable from the long press list?

My suggestion is more intuitive to me, but I can see the argument for doing it the other way.  I suspect that if this were to be implemented, there would be a significant percentage of the user base that would need to adapt regardless of which method were chosen.

[JdGordon]

1.  Since right and play are currently redundant, right could be dedicated to inserting to playlist.  So, if one were to hit right on a folder, the folder would be inserted.  Select would be used to open a folder rather than inserting it.

sounds good, BUT I think not only should it be optional, it sould be customizable also.
i.e, right would allow any of the playlist insert options (so all the insert and queue options)

heck, I would even like it if right just opened up that playlist insert menu, because long press navi is annoying.

also, remeber we have the rec button on the hxxx which is barely used at all which people have been asking for this sort of thing on that button for ages....

whatever the outcome, this sort of patch is fairly easy to put together, so all we need is some sort of consensus and the OK from the core guys and its good to go.

[Rincewind]

sounds good, BUT I think not only should it be optional, it sould be customizable also.
i.e, right would allow any of the playlist insert options (so all the insert and queue options)

I wish you good luck getting something regarding buttons and customisability past the core developers...

If I knew that it had chances to get included, I would extend my record button patch with this functionalty (different players, different buttons, but the same concept).

[rossic]

Sorry to butt in with another tangent, but...

Well, I had been thinking this pretty recently myself, and wondering if I should put it in feature request or not.  Here was my thought on the issue (from the perspective of an iriver3x0).

If I am alone in this reasoning, then I am sorry to bother you...

The NAVI (center) button currently does 2 things.  

• It Plays the current song
• Adds the directory (not including sub directories) to the playlist

This seems rather silly to me.  I don't always want to add the whole directory, and with the current set up there is no way to just have ONE song in the playlist.  You can do it, but it involves more than one step, which just becomes tedious.  I think that NAVI should just put one song in the playlist and play it.  

Then, like you have been discussing, make the RIGHT button insert (next / last / etc, maybe modifiable through config menus?) and also automatically select the next file, so that if you want to select 3 files that are next to eachother, you hit "RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT," not "RIGHT, DOWN, RIGHT, DOWN, RIGHT, DOWN."  This setup would also mean that you must hold NAVI to insert an entire directory, but I think that's something we can deal with to enqueue a whole directory.

Also... sometimes it might be nice to choose on the fly if I want to add the whole directory recursively or non recursively (though it's pretty rare).  

If I missed something, and there is an easy way to just have one file in the playlist... could someone tell me how?  

[Llorean]

You do realize that "Insert" would be inserting a single file into a playlist. Wouldn't that negate the need to have NAVI play just one file?

You seem to want to reduce *both* buttons from what they do now, not preserving that function at all.

[rossic]

I'm not sure if you follow me...

I'm saying that if you have a bunch of files in the playlist, and you say, "hey, I'd really just like to start a fresh playlist," you can't just insert a song.  If you currently use the NAVI button at that point, you start a new playlist, sure, but you also include the other files in the directory.  That's a "reduction," I suppose, but my point was kind of poking at the fact that I think the current functionality of the NAVI button is flawed.  

I do agree that functionality would benefit if the right button became an insert.  However, I think NAVI is a little strange.

Am I the only one who would like to be able to select a single song, and make it the only song in a playlist?

[JdGordon]

Am I the only one who would like to be able to select a single song, and make it the only song in a playlist?

No, ive always thouught this was strange also..