Playlist: Centre button or Right could Insert instead of Play?

[Febs]

Isn't that what the 'play next' function does?  I would certainly *not* want to reduce the Navi/Select functionality to playing a single song.

[nls]

I'm saying that if you have a bunch of files in the playlist, and you say, "hey, I'd really just like to start a fresh playlist," you can't just insert a song.  If you currently use the NAVI button at that point, you start a new playlist, sure, but you also include the other files in the directory.  That's a "reduction," I suppose, but my point was kind of poking at the fact that I think the current functionality of the NAVI button is flawed.  

Or you can do this the old way, press stop, then insert your track, simple!  

I've never in, my two years of using my h320, ever wanted to put _one_ song in a playlist and wouldn't want a quick button for that... (Yes I know everybody have different listening habits but this can't be that common, can it?)

[Llorean]

But if you make Right an Insert, then there's NO reason for Navi to do a single song, because that's exactly what 'Insert' IS.

You're arguing to make both buttons an insert, for some very strange reason, and I'm not sure if you can see it.

If you wanted to start a single-song playlist with Navi staying the same and Right being insert, you just press stop, then press Right on a song.

Right now Navi plays a whole folder so that *gasp* you don't have to set up a playlist in advance before you can listen to music. This is how many, many MP3 players operate (just starting on a selected song and traversing the folder or device from there).

[rossic]

Ah ha!  I had said this a while ago...

If I missed something, and there is an easy way to just have one file in the playlist... could someone tell me how?  

I just double checked the documentation, well... the manual and a few wiki pages (that was a fast recovery of the web page!  Glad it's back!), and I did not see the same information you have given me.  I don't often use the stop button.  I didn't realize it was any different from the play/pause button except that it would restart the track you were on, as opposed to continuing from the moment you stopped it.  I was unaware that you could insert a single song if there were no songs playing.  This is because if you stop playback then resume, your playlist is untouched.  

I think there are other users confused about this as well.  I saw a few other people asking for a "clear playlist" feature (which is all I really wanted...).  I think that the manual should state this info clearly ... "If you insert while playback is stopped, then a new playlist will be generated."  

If this info is somewhere, and I didn't see it... then maybe it's hidden too well.  Anyone know if it's written and where?  Oh, and before I get gasped at again for not recognizing this feature, let me just say sorry in advance.  

Right now Navi plays a whole folder so that *gasp* you don't have to set up a playlist in advance before you can listen to music. This is how many, many MP3 players operate (just starting on a selected song and traversing the folder or device from there).

Finally, I think that Rockbox is better than many, many other MP3 players (firmware) which is why I was suggesting the change.  With a few more stability tweaks and minor features, it will undoubtedly be the best.  I still think that NAVI playing a directory is strange, but as long as I can start a new playlist the way you described, I'm satisfied...  oh, and I still say (agree with everyone here, it seems) that right should be insert.  Now can we all agree on what insert it should be, or should it be customizable?  

[Rincewind]

I don't like right to be insert, instead I would like to have the record button be customisable with an insert option (I plan to code this for my patch anyway). This is obviously only on irivers.

I don't use NAVI to select the files, I navigate to the directory (album) I want to play and press Right on the first track to play the whole album.

[JdGordon]

I think right to insert is more logical than rec... its certsinly more standard over all the targets

[nls]

If this info is somewhere, and I didn't see it... then maybe it's hidden too well.  Anyone know if it's written and where?  Oh, and before I get gasped at again for not recognizing this feature, let me just say sorry in advance.  

It isn't very hidden at all IMO http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h300/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-550004.4.2

If playback is stopped, the Insert and Queue functions can be used as described in the next section to create a new playlist instead of adding to an existing one.

[Febs]

I think there are other users confused about this as well.  I saw a few other people asking for a "clear playlist" feature (which is all I really wanted...).  I think that the manual should state this info clearly ... "If you insert while playback is stopped, then a new playlist will be generated."  

If this info is somewhere, and I didn't see it... then maybe it's hidden too well.  Anyone know if it's written and where?  Oh, and before I get gasped at again for not recognizing this feature, let me just say sorry in advance.

We are always happy to improve the manual.  What you should do is write up all of your proposed changes and submit them as a patch on Flyspray.  If you are familiar with LaTeX, you can submit them in the form of a patch that can be applied directly to the manual's source files.  If you are not familiar with LaTeX, you can simply write up your proposed changes in a .txt file or even in the text of the Flyspray entry.  I, or one of the others who maintain the manual, will then incorporate the changes into the source.

[Rincewind]

I think right to insert is more logical than rec... its certsinly more standard over all the targets

well, "Insert" != "play some music" for me. If you think back to the iriver firmware, the Rec button was used as a (limited in functionality) insert/queue there. I never use NAVI to play a song because it is more difficult to press on the H1xx than Right.

I don't think we need to find the smallest possible agreement across all targets here, unified buttons over all targets are practically impossible anyway and would reduce the usability of rockbox on targets with more buttons.

I can see that this case is not easy to decide, I see that there are strong arguments against my side. Make it an option, maybe?

[Llorean]

Controls should be "as unified as possible". This does not mean identical, but if a button serves a purpose A on one screen and B on another, on all targets the one that does A on the first screen should do B on the second, if possible.

This does mean that the Record button is up for grabs.

My suggestion:

Navi: "Start a new playlist with the selected song" (or in this folder, if start with selected is disabled)
Right: Insert highlighted (Not Insert Next or Insert Last, just generic Insert, this would also do one-song playlists)
Rec-Long: Recording screen
Rec-Short: Queue (again neither Next or Last)

[Febs]

well, "Insert" != "play some music" for me. If you think back to the iriver firmware, the Rec button was used as a (limited in functionality) insert/queue there.

I honestly don't even remember how the iriver firmware works.

I never use NAVI to play a song because it is more difficult to press on the H1xx than Right.

I find exactly the opposite.

Which goes to show that this is indeed true:

I can see that this case is not easy to decide,

[rossic]

Thank you Febs, and nls.  I was probably mistaken in looking at the pdf instead of the online version of the manual, between which there is a small discrepancy.  But, you're right; the info is there.

I will direct any follow up to a more appropriate place as suggested.  

Please excuse the digression.  Back to this topic, I like Llorean's suggestion:

Navi: "Start a new playlist with the selected song" (or in this folder, if start with selected is disabled)
Right: Insert highlighted (Not Insert Next or Insert Last, just generic Insert, this would also do one-song playlists)
Rec-Long: Recording screen
Rec-Short: Queue (again neither Next or Last)

but change
Rec-Short: Playlist menu

or append

Right-Long: Playlist menu  

The Right-Long option only saves one short button push, so I'm not as keen on it as using Rec-Short for the job.  It does, however, offer possible unification, albeit only for a small shortcut.

[Llorean]

I prefer Right-Long for that, actually, since I'd really like Right-Long to NOT go several folders down and launch (or insert) something.

[rossic]

I am running a month old build where Right-Long doesn't enter a folder.  Thus, this feature could be a shortcut to the Playlist menu acting on entire folders as well as single songs.  

Is that consistent with current builds?

[Llorean]

Sorry, I misread, I thought you meant "Playlist View" rather than "Playlist Menu"