Ok to Charge Cash to Install Rockbox on other People's iPods?

[Xomphos]

Hi,
A friend and I recently had a great idea. Create a small buisness thing where in our local area, we install Rockbox and/or iPodLinux on people's iPods for cash. There is a large market for it and it would be a great way to make money. However, we were wondering if this is legal or not. Would it be legal if we provided a link and stated that we do not own/create the software used? Technically, we are just providing the services and labor to install it and get them started with Rockbox and/or iPodLinux. So, ya, I just wanted to know if it would be legal or not if we provied certain information like credit to the projects (iPodLinux and Rockbox) about the projects.
Thanks!

[Yotto]

I'm saying no.  I don't believe it's illegal, so long as you provide them with the source code (Maybe only if they ask for it, so just be prepared) and they know that they're not buying Rockbox, buy your time to install it.

I say no because if you are not technically savvy enough to install rockbox, you're really not technicall savvy enough to use it.  Especially on an iPod where it will occationally lock up, fail to tagc er... Database up iTunes'd music, or require a reset.  Not to mention upgrades.

Are you going to be responsible (ie, accept their calls) if they, for example, can't find a song they transferred over from iTunes? Or one they copied from the command line?  Or if they set their foreground and background colors the same?  Or booted up withe the hold switch on and "now it looks ugly"?

Think about that.  Because they WILL call.  You put this on their iPod, for cash, and you better be damn willing to support it or they'll tell everybody you broke their mp3 players.

And no, just telling them some stuff ahead of time isn't enough.  Printing the manual for them isn't enough.  They WILL have problems and they will call you.  And if you protect yourself by getting them to agree to not call you, then they'll tell everybody that Rockbox is garbage and it broke their iPod.  And (I assume) you don't want that.

*edit*
As an example, http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7586.0 (Nothing against the poster, this is just to prove my point.  It's 4:00am, your phone rings.  The man at the other end says this)

[mikeage]

100% OK.

In fact, that's the ideal business model according to the GPL.

You do, of course, have to explain that rockbox is not your software, and that they can install it themselves using the source code available at rockbox.org (you may have to actually host a mirror yourself or provide a CD).

I do agree with Yotto that installing on an iPod may not be the best idea at this time, however.

[michael.conner]

IANAL, but as long as you're not putting it up on ebay and calling it PimpMyiPod, I can't imagine there being really any legal problems at all. Best Buy and other retailers make a killing installing Windows or virus scan programs or whatever on peoples' computers, because people are willing to pay the money to not have to do it themselves.  Are these people being cheated? Not in the legal or lay person's definition of fraud.  Are they paying too much for something that they really could do themselves if they weren't technophobic / lazy / unable to be bothered with it?  Maybe.

Yotto brings up the usability point -- people love the iPod because it "just works."  I agree.  (And frankly, I can't see there being a market for iPodLinux among those people, either.)

[Llorean]

Don't forget to provide a hardcopy of the manual, and insist that they read it *before* they tromp over here and start asking for help on the same six questions we always get. :-P

[bigtrouble77]

You're simply providing a service.  The enduser just needs to be aware of whatever licenses rockbox is bound by and agree to them.  Nothing wrong with this at all.  

[scorche]

As others have said, this is fine as long as it is done correctly.

I would suggest that you read this thread as well.

[vkeios]

Yes, this is exactly the kind of thing, Richard Stallman approves of.
Though in my own beliefs, you shouldn't do it with ipods yet. Since its not that stable yet.

[Davide-NYC]

I agree with the sentiment that it would not benefit us (as a community) or the civilian (as a non-techie user) to be installing Rockbox on iPods just yet.

We'd need the bootloader disk mode issue taken care of, optimisation of playback codecs that don't yet work realtime, and the scaling bug resolved at the very least *first*.

I don't even think the iRiver H300 series is ready yet. Until the bootloader gets the charging update. As it stands now an audio only user will still end up using the OF for charging if they are not diligent in their order of operations.

I say only the iRiver H1x0s and the Archos players are ready to go for 'consumers' right now.

I own a 4g iPod, an H320 and an H120. Not sure about the iAudio players but I think the bootloader may be in a similar state as the H3x0. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

My $0.02.  

[scorche]

At the least, do not offer to install rockbox on the Mini 1G or iPod 4G (grayscale or color), as those units have the frequency scaling bug.

[baobab68]

Won't you get a lot of people who bought an iPod in the last couple of months (ie one of the new models that ROCKbox won't yet run on) complaining that you can't install it for them?

[Xomphos]

Thanks a lot for your replies so far, I am glad that the Rockbox community understands where I and my friend are going with this. As far as responsibilty goes if the iPod dies, we would be saying that we and the Rockbox and iPodLinux and software creators, are not responsible for any temporary or pernament damage done whatsoever, etc.
Anyways, I was bored, so I made a tenative and somewhat cheasy price list:

-Default Rockbox Installation: $10
Add-On Installation Services:
-Shareware Doom Installation: $2
-Themes: 3 are installed by default for free, however, if you want more themes installed: $0.50 per theme installation

-Default iPodLinux Installation: $10
Add-On Installation Services:
-Video support on the iPod Nano: $5
-Shareware Doom Installation: $2
-iBoy Installation: $2

MEGA DEAL  
-Installation of BOTH iPodLinux AND Rockbox WITH a loader to CHOSE if you want to use the Apple OS, Rockbox, iPodLinux, Diskmode, or if you want to put your iPod to sleep!: $18
And for a limited time, when you purchase this installation option
you will get $5 worth of credit to use on additional services!

-Note: By default, all installation services include guides created by the Rockbox and/or iPodLinux community WITH credit due where it is need be and a LINK PROVIDED TO THE SOURCE.

iPod Repair Services:
-iPod Diagnostics Tests: $2
-iPod Sofware Restoration: $3 (INCLUDED WITH Rockbox and/or iPodLinux Installation(s)!)  

Lol, ya.....

[StickMan]

I say no because if you are not technically savvy enough to install rockbox, you're really not technicall savvy enough to use it.

I think there's a legitimate opportunity in that statement.  Not just to install the firmware, but to be the local frontline support for all those customers.

[soap]

I say no because if you are not technically savvy enough to install rockbox, you're really not technicall savvy enough to use it.

I think there's a legitimate opportunity in that statement.  Not just to install the firmware, but to be the local frontline support for all those customers.

The point of a DAP is to "just work".
If your skill level is not high enough to make a DAP firmware "just work", than you will be unhappy.
IMHO.
The last thing I would want to do is call for support for my audio player.

[bk]

Nah, I disagree. Rockbox 'just works' 90% of the time, when you just want to play some music. The more exotic features/options can cause confusion but most users would never bother with them.

There's no problem AFAIAC with this idea provided the GPL is respected (and the copyrights of the various theme authors). So provide source and don't hide what it is and everything is fine.