crc errors on brand new hdd

[bummed_taper]

i just wanted to leave a message to let everyone that suffers from these problems with their recordings to say that i firmly believe that there is quite simply a bug in the rockbox software. i'm sick of reading the obvious answer that the drive is failing in these forums and just wanted to post this so people don't lose their minds fighting an impossible fight.

after having my hp-120 for years collecting dust due the the iriver file size limit, i was thrilled to see that rockbox + iriver hp-1xx combo really seemed to be the PERFECT match for my recording needs. i suffered from the crc errors when i first attempted to use it, read the forums and being in IT for over 10 yrs, understood very clearly what crc errors mean. so, i promply ordered a new drive. popped it in, formatted and ran very successfully for about 10 shows, all the while being EXTREMELY gentle/careful to make sure the drive was not dropped or harmed in any way.

well, guess WHAT folks? DING, back in the same boat. last show i taped has crc errors up the wazzu. i'm very sad about this as, i couldn't ask anything more from a recording device. it's got the perfect interface and is a nice compact unit.

my only option at this point it to attempt to find some sort of 1.8 to cf converter and try to use a flash card.

sincerly,
bummed_taper

[Llorean]

I like the fact that you provide no evidence other than "the drive was new" as a suggestion that the errors are caused by Rockbox.

If we're going on circumstantial evidence alone, how does your case of CRC errors outweight the many of us who've never once encountered one?

Is it not possible that some other hardware failure in your device caused damage to the new drive? You're ruling out a wide range of possibilities based upon circumstantial evidence that has equal weight contrary to it.

[Febs]

How do you know that the new hard drive isn't defective?

[bummed_taper]

whatta ya want to see a receipt?  

well, it's very possible that we aren't all using the same hardware hence, rockbox might perform differently depending on variations of component lots?

how do i know? i did a low level format for starters.

i can see you guys want to make this a flame war, have fun.

i simply made the post so others who had the same problems can be more informed when they make their choice to walk away or not.

[Llorean]

Asking for evidence isn't a flame war...

The point is that you've decided the upon a cause by intentionally ignoring other possible causing factors. It's possible Rockbox has a bug. The fact that these drives are prone to failure fairly readily and that many of us don't experience these problems ever sugests that Rockbox isn't the bug, and the only evidence you've tendered is that the drive recorded successfully a few times before failing, which doesn't really show much at all.

My point was not to start a flame war, but to illustrate the fact that your post really doesn't say anything other than "I think Rockbox is the cause, but have no non-circumstantial proof" but you were trying to pass it off as hard evidence.

[Davide-NYC]

This is a constructive post. <-- read this again.

bummed_taper: don't be like that. You started the post in a defensive manner. No one is flaming you, but bug reports are taken seriously and are properly scrutinized.

Please describe exactly

1. Whick rockbox build you're using.
2. How you are taping (what equipment)
3. What setting are being used
4. Anything else that could be helpful

I will be doing some testing of the recently modified recording code over the weekend and would like to know.

Regarding your situation: I do not suspect your HD, instead I suspect your H120 itself.  It could be defective or it could be 'different' as you suggest.  But this is just speculation.  You can confirm the functionality of the HD by purchasing (at minimal expense) an external 1.8" enclosure and testing the drive.  No receipt can tell you whether the thing works or not.

I regret that bug reporting and testing is work (I know, I do it all the time) and if you don't want to do this I understand completely, but no one can reproduce (or confirm the existence of) a bug that's not adequately described.

[thermiGR]

The last 18 months i made at least 150  .wav recordings with rockbox. Everyone of  these recording was 3-4 hours long. I use my H140 iRiver with a 60GB hard disk. I never had any problem to my recordings. I also used rockbox for playback for 1000s hours. So I think that there is no bag to rockbox that effects to the hard disk's health. I

[bummed_taper]

i disagree that i posted in defensive manner, mearly stated my opinion. i can agree to disagree. i have to say how impressed with you post i am, unlike some others. strange how easy it is.

to answer your questions:

1) build = cvs-060923

2) DPA 4061s through a core sound battery box

3) wav 44k/agc off

4) the last recording that went south was the only one that was a line out from the board (can't imagine how that might play other than the drive may have been exposed to extreme heat which, i don't think it was as, i recall when i picked it up from the board.)

i'd LOVE to help work this bug out. i thought i expressed clearly my endearment for the device/rockbox.

to make this easy, are you in the NY metro area? you can HAVE the device to test with yourself if you like since, at this point my frustration only grows w/additional uneccesarily botched recordings. i'm looking into picking up an m-audio microtrak in the meantime even though i have a few friends that have them and i MUCH prefer the iriver.

please, any other questions i can answer, don't hesitate to fire away. i'll do my best to stick this out as long as i can.

p.s. - those of you who are trying to derail this post with stuff like, "it works fine for me" absolution are really missing the point entirely. there are MANY factors in the equation, to assume they have ALL been covered is just plain absurd.

[Llorean]

The point was not to "Derail" your post. The point was that our forum has standards as to what level we expect something to be verified before someone attempts to claim it as a bug, and your personal statement came off as nothing more than a "It doesn't work for me, so it must be a bug" posting. A new hard disk which was low level formatted in no way rules out hardware failure. Especially since the failure may not have been the disk itself.

As I suggested to you in the PM you sent me, why not try recording in the retail firmware after another low-level format, if you feel the software is to blame?

[Febs]

i can see you guys want to make this a flame war, have fun.

i disagree that i posted in defensive manner, mearly stated my opinion. i can agree to disagree. i have to say how impressed with you post i am, unlike some others. strange how easy it is.

This type of response is completely inappropriate.  I read your post with interest and responded with a simple question that is directly relevant to the issue at hand.  You claim that there is a software problem.   I think that it is pretty reasonable to attempt to eliminate hardware as a potential source of your problem.  

p.s. - those of you who are trying to derail this post with stuff like, "it works fine for me" absolution are really missing the point entirely. there are MANY factors in the equation, to assume they have ALL been covered is just plain absurd.

This underscores my point.  One of the "MANY factors" could be a bad hard drive.  Is it likely that you were unlucky enough to get two bad drives?  No.  But given enough people using Rockbox, even unlikely situations will happen from time to time, so we attempt to narrow the possible causes of your problem.

We certainly welcome bug reports and user identification of potential problems, but surely you can understand that we can't extrapolate that there is an issue based on a single isolated incident, when similarly-situated users are not experiencing the same problem.  If you're not willing to answer reasonable questions regarding your post, then there is really not much we can do to help or respond.

[LinusN]

The H100 series has a problem with the hard drive connector daughterboard. The connectors break loose between the boards, and the only way to solve it is to take it apart and resolder the connectors.

This is likely the cause of the CRC errors.

[bummed_taper]

we can't extrapolate that there is an issue based on a single isolated incident

lmao, surely you ARE kidding right? this is hardly isolated. i wonder how you are quantifying the MANY who have read the crc posts, tried the suggestions without success and just walked away.

it's clear to me that some folks on here are just too personally attached to be remotely objective.

i'd like to state again, that i made this post in the hopes of helping others who find themselves in the same boat, NOT an attack on rockbox. i made it very clear how much i like rockbox, several times over. if you want to critize me or have some issue with the way i've relayed my scenerio, feel free to do so in PM. constructive posts always prove the most effective (thank you Davide-NYC & LinusN).

The H100 series has a problem with the hard drive connector daughterboard. The connectors break loose between the boards, and the only way to solve it is to take it apart and resolder the connectors.

This is likely the cause of the CRC errors.

WOW, i can't thank you enough for this suggestion! i was unable to find anything like this in the many, many posts on the subject. i will take a look @ it when i can and report back as, this seems very plausible given the circumstances and my experiences with it.

thanks again!

[Febs]

we can't extrapolate that there is an issue based on a single isolated incident

lmao, surely you ARE kidding right? this is hardly isolated. i wonder how you are quantifying the MANY who have read the crc posts, tried the suggestions without success and just walked away.

Yours is the only post that I can recall having read--ever--that suggests that CRC errors are due to a software bug in Rockbox's recording function.  I personally have used Rockbox for many hours of recording without ever experiencing a CRC error.

Certainly we've seen other reports of CRC errors from Rockbox users, but none that has ever suggested a software problem.  In fact, I saw many, many reports of CRC errors on Mistic River before Rockbox even became available for iriver platforms.  

it's clear to me that some folks on here are just too personally attached to be remotely objective.

OK, in summary:

bummed_taper:  Rockbox software causes CRC errors!
Llorean:  How do you know it's not a hardware issue?
Febs:  How do you know it's not a hardware issue?
bummed_taper:  You guys want a flame war and lack objectivity.
LinusN:  It's a hardware issue.
bummed_taper:  Yay!  Thanks for being so nice.