iPod Rockbox sound!?!

[BoomerFZ1]

I currently have a 30gb iAudio X5 that I'm going to try RockBox on but I have a question regarding iPod and RockBox.  The sound quality on the iAudio products is far and away the best I've ever experienced with any DAP but I love the functionality and looks of the iPod video.  Does RockBox make the iPod video sound better than in stock config?  I'd love to get an iPod and use RockBox to make it sound as good as my X5.

[saratoga]

Sound output should be the same, aside from the better EQ in rockbox and the other formats available.

Quality wise, theres not a huge difference between most DAPs anyway.

[BoomerFZ1]

I beg strongly to differ about the quality thing.  I know each ear is different but there's not doubt that the iAudio products sound MUCH better than the rest I've tried.  The only thing that comes close is the Sandisk Sansa and it just didn't have the deep, rich sound of the iAudio.  The iPod strait sounds like crud once you jam the X5.

[Chronon]

I'll keep checking for more analyses of DAPs, but this guy gave the iPod pretty good marks.  In the final paragraph he says it performs better than many CD players despite the fact that it will mostly be used to decode lossy formats.

Deep doesn't necessarily mean higher fidelity sound reproduction.

[saratoga]

I beg strongly to differ about the quality thing.  I know each ear is different but there's not doubt that the iAudio products sound MUCH better than the rest I've tried.  

The RMAA results are actually quite poor for the IAudio X5 compared to any of the Ipods and Iriver as I recall.  Assuming you're talking about that player, this is an excellent example of why most people have absolutely no idea what sounds better and simply assume whichever player they like best sounds best.

[Llorean]

Better is just a bad word since inherently it requires a scale and that can be purity of reproduction or it can be how much you enjoy it. Perhaps we should relegate it entirely to the subjective and use more clearly objective terms when discussing testing results with hard numbers. But really subjective has no place since everyone has different tastes.

[saratoga]

Actually, looks like I had a bad source for the X5 tests.  The results here are pretty good:

http://maksee.narod.ru/sound/x5/CowonHeadOutWithLoad.htm

But not as good as the Ipod Video (though I suppose that depends on which parameters you are most interested in):

http://hifiipod.co.uk/?page_id=65

[scorche]

I just want to jump in and answer the actual question before we get this much into this talk...

I have heard many people say that Rockbox sounds better than the original firmware, but those claims typically fall apart when put up to an ABX test.  The two firmwares sound basically the same.  The kicker though, is that Rockbox has much better options and ways to change how it sounds.

Simply put, while all options are made to be as stock as possible, no.  But with the EQ on and other options active, potentially, yes.

EDIT: Heh...looks like my phone/browser has a limit to how much you can type.

[John R]

Hi,

My first post and I'd like to thank all the developers/contributors for Rockbox. I had a Rio Karma which went defunct and purely purchased an Ipod Video 60gb because I could use Rockbox and hence FLAC. My older player is a 60gb Zen Xtra, which after changing the hard drive, is being used by my son. Coding LAME alt-preset-insane. Still a good sound, he uses Ultimate Ears Superfi Pros.

I have had  very few problems with Rockbox to date and am currently using a Senab build.

Coming back to the main topic, I am very pleased with the sound straight from the headphone output using Ultimate Ears UE10-Pro's. (FLAC) Due to their very high efficiency they require very little gain, so I suppose that contributes to the good sound. I consider it equal or better than the Karma and better than the Zen Xtra. I realize the encoding is different but I am talking about the best quality sound from each DAP that is possible. I also sometimes use HFI 650's. I currently do not use any EQ but have played around with both the hardware and software EQ.

I have tried a Porta Corda head amp and this has made little discernible difference using the headphone jack.  I am going to try the line out, using a cheap dock, with the Porta Corda to see if there is an improvement. If there is, then I'll get a fancy (and expensive) docking cable.

I'm coming from a main system of Linn/Naim so have a little experience of good sound, but at the end of the day, you can't beat live music!!

Once again, thanks to everyone here.

Regards

John Reeves

[Chronon]

I think for DAPs there is a reasonable metric for determining the quality of its playback -- namely, the fidelity with which it can reproduce a target waveform.  It should exhibit flat response over the audible spectrum.  

The transducer you attach to the DAP (speakers/headphones) is a whole separate issue.  The headphones that I use have a flat response curve out to 10 kHz and about a 5 dB gain from there out to 20 kHz.  Consequently, I adjusted my EQ to compensate for this because I seek a flat response so that the music comes through as recorded.