Key mapping for pitch screen wanted

[fml2]

Hello,

I've made up the patch 6145 (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6145) that allows to change the pitch not only in 0.1% steps but also in semitone steps. As I only have H120 I don't know what key should be used to toggle the pitch mode on other players.

So please tell me what button on your player whould you use in the pitch screen to toggle the pitch mode from 0.1% step to semitone step and back.

I used MODE (i.e. A-B) on H120. Of course I need replies for as many devices as possible.

Any help is higly appreciated.

[ant]

I think the pitch change should allways be in semitones (or fractions of semitones). But you should display the percentage for notification. So if you adjust the pitch 6 semitones, you see 150%.
In my opinion, toggling just complicates things unnecessary. I can't imagine that someone wants to increase the pitch exactly 3%, rather you want to increase the pitch a little bit and that is still possible if pitch changes are in frations of semitones.

[fml2]

I think the pitch change should allways be in semitones (or fractions of semitones).

This was an existing feature. I wanted to enhance, not replace or change it.

But you should display the percentage for notification. So if you adjust the pitch 6 semitones, you see 150%.

That's not correct IMHO since semitone steps are exponential. So 6 semitones mean 2^(1/2)=141.4%.

In my opinion, toggling just complicates things unnecessary. I can't imagine that someone wants to increase the pitch exactly 3%

I needed both modes. I wanted to start music playback and strum on my guitar. My guitar was not tuned exactly with the recording. So I changed the pitch. But the difference was not an integer number of semitones either. So I had to use both modes. Or, in this case, I could use only the normal mode. But if you know that you need N semitones (I have recordings where I know I need to go exactly one tone lower), you're quicker with semitone mode. A little bit messy explanation, I see...

[fml2]

PS. How about key mapping proposals? I've figured out some but since I don't have all the daps it's not tested in reality.

[ant]

I think the pitch change should allways be in semitones (or fractions of semitones).

This was an existing feature. I wanted to enhance, not replace or change it.

Yes, I know you did not want to change it, nevertheless I propose exactly that  

But you should display the percentage for notification. So if you adjust the pitch 6 semitones, you see 150%.

That's not correct IMHO since semitone steps are exponential. So 6 semitones mean 2^(1/2)=141.4%.

Hmm, isn't the percentage exponential too? If I set the Pitch to 150% I expect that the song is played one and a half time faster.

In my opinion, toggling just complicates things unnecessary. I can't imagine that someone wants to increase the pitch exactly 3%

I needed both modes. I wanted to start music playback and strum on my guitar. My guitar was not tuned exactly with the recording. So I changed the pitch. But the difference was not an integer number of semitones either. So I had to use both modes. Or, in this case, I could use only the normal mode. But if you know that you need N semitones (I have recordings where I know I need to go exactly one tone lower), you're quicker with semitone mode. A little bit messy explanation, I see...

Of course finetuning of the pitch should still be possible. As I see it, there are 3 cases, when one want to change the pitch:
1. You want to play along to a song but the tune is off, so you want to change the pitch a little bit. To achieve this, I propose to divide a semitone into 10-20 subsections. So if you press 'Vol+' the pitch goes up to 0.1 semitones and the percentage is 100.83%
2. You want to rise the tune of a song by a semitone. If you press 'Right' the pitch goes up to 1 semitone and the percentage to 108.33%
3. You're a big fan of sqeezy sound so you rise the pitch as far it will go. Then the pitch is 12 semitones and the percentage 200%

As you can see, there is realy no need for percentage. You can do everything with the semitone scale. In my opinion it is also more logical. With percentage you don't even know if it is linear or exponentional but I think everyone knows what a semitone is.

[Llorean]

One thing: This isn't a pitch-increase. This is a Playback Speed increase.

Describing it in terms of pitch increase is actually incorrect.

[fml2]

One thing: This isn't a pitch-increase. This is a Playback Speed increase. Describing it in terms of pitch increase is actually incorrect.

Well, this is both speed and pitch increase. So describing it in terms of pitch increase is not "incorrect" but rather "half correct" :-)

Yes, I know you did not want to change it, nevertheless I propose exactly that

Then this should be discussed separately

Hmm, isn't the percentage exponential too?

I think no. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

If I set the Pitch to 150% I expect that the song is played one and a half time faster.

That's what I expect. But 150% is not the same as 6 semitones (half of an octave). One semitone means multiplying frequency by the factor of 2^(1/12). 6 semitones up mean multiplying by 2^(1/2), i.e. changing the frequency to 141.4% of its initial value.

Changing the pitch in 0.1 semitune steps makes no sense IMHO since this is not a widely used term. A percent (or promille) is better here. But a semitune is a well established term in music.

As you can see, there is realy no need for percentage.

Well, one could argue about this. It would be possible to toggle the display mode -- in % or in semitunes. This would be separate from pitch change mode. But this would also be a separate patch.

[Llorean]

I think that as long as the method is simply increasing the playback rate of the file, the display should stay as percentage, since that's all it is. Play the file 112% faster, or whatnot, a value that is *particularly* useful for knowing when a file will end.

For example, if I have a 3 hour long trip, and a 3.5 hour long spoken audio program that I want to get the whole content from, I can increase the speed and while it will sound a little funny, I know what the minimal increase I need (minimal being ideal because of the issue of sounding funny) without having to convert from Semitones just to use time compression.

Once there's a pitch increase without playback speed then perhaps they should be considered.

[fml2]

I think that as long as the method is simply increasing the playback rate of the file, the display should stay as percentage, since that's all it is. Play the file 112% faster, or whatnot, a value that is *particularly* useful for knowing when a file will end.

Full ACK. But changing the speed+pitch in semitone steps is still a useful feature IMHO. The display can be always in %.

[Llorean]

I have no objection to allowing semitone steps as an additional option.

[fml2]

I have no objection to allowing semitone steps as an additional option.

Do you also have some ideas about the key mappings (the real purpose of this thread)? Or look into the patch whether the designed keys are OK.

[Mmmm]

To do the key mappings why don't you use the sim?

[ant]

Now I understand. We actualy stretch the file in the pitch screen. Scretching effects the pitch and the tempo. The pitch can be measured in semitones and the tempo in percentage.
As you see you convinced me of the toggling.  
I own a H320 for which I'd propose the 'A-B' Button. But I think you already did the Key mapping for the H3xx players.

But one little suggestion is still left. Can you rename the menu entry for the pitch screen to 'Pitch & Tempo'?

[Febs]

For example, if I have a 3 hour long trip, and a 3.5 hour long spoken audio program that I want to get the whole content from, I can increase the speed and while it will sound a little funny, I know what the minimal increase I need (minimal being ideal because of the issue of sounding funny) without having to convert from Semitones just to use time compression.

On the other hand, if I am using this feature to practice a difficult musical passage (which I do), it is far more useful to display in semitones (or half-steps, as we call them in the U.S.).  A change of "200%" is less useful than a change of "12 semitones" or "1 octave."  So both of these designations can be useful, depending on what exactly it is that you are using the feature to accomplish.

[fml2]

To do the key mappings why don't you use the sim?

Because I don't want / have possibility to build the sim for all platforms. But mainly because by using the sim (and not the real device) you can't get the feeling whether the key is a pleasure to use.

On the other hand, if I am using this feature to practice a difficult musical passage (which I do)

(Almost) exactly my case

it is far more useful to display in semitones

Yes, that would be a useful feature but that's another patch. We're talking about changing the pitch here, not about displaying it. A patch should be as atomic as possible, no?