Rockbox Player - Project to design and build a Free/Open hardware audio player

[Llorean]

I believe in the idea "design and build a Free/Open hardware audio player (DAP) and recorder, for use with RockBox." I remember that others developers as Bagder told since begin that didn't believe on it because we can't do an attractive looking player as Ipods or Sansas.

Many of us also don't believe in it because your hardware will cost two or three times as much as players we already support  (if not much more, many refurbished players can be had in the USD15-95 range), and do less than them.

So, I am trying to make that idea real, as the best as I can, with the money, free time and knowledge I have. I don't fell responsible for implement the others expectations about a kind of this hardware.

Rockbox is not designed to sell. By necessity you must sell hardware unless you expect people to buy the parts and build their own. So Rockbox does not need to be designed with others' expectations. Something you intend to ask people to give you money for, does. If you can't realize this (and it seems like you haven't still) you're giong to be in a lot of trouble.

For now I am thinking like this, even If am I doing it in a wrong way: "We are doers. We do what others only talk about." -- taken from http://www.haxx.se/

And I am sure that Rockbox code started for being a simple line of codes and did evolution, so in hardware I think we should do the same.

Code is different from hardware. You CANNOT treat it exactly the same. Code is cheap. All it costs anyone is time, which can be spare. It can evolve, pieces of it can be replaced, at little or no monetary cost.

Hardware requires cost. You've built a dev-board that you cannot sell effectively without redesigning. That means that anyone working on code for it will, at some point, have to buy hardware again (for the new design). Then they'll have to write new code (for the new drivers). This could've been avoided by trying to figure out what your target audience was, and picking hardware appropriate for it, initially.

Anyone who's bought your dev-board will be out any money they've invested in this project, with it effectively wasted since the devboard was never needed in the first place.

Yes, sometimes you need new hardware designs. But you should NEVER spend money and time working on a hardware design you know in advance you don't intend to keep. It simply isn't good time (or money) management.

[casainho]

Hello :-)

Because of this reason:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.msg146274#msg146274 ,

we had change the name from "Rockbox Player" to "Lyre".

We wanted a name from an animal (nature connection) and we think of a
hardware running Rockbox as colorful (Rockbox themes are great!) and
with great sound. We had a few names but we ended up with "Lyre":

"A Lyrebird is either of two species of ground-dwelling Australian
birds, most notable for their superb ability to mimic natural and
artificial sounds from their environment."

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyrebird ; Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjE0Kdfos4Y

But wait, Lyre is also the name of an instrument:

"The lyre (from Greek λύρα - lyra) is a stringed musical instrument
well known for its use in classical antiquity and later. The
recitations of the Ancient Greeks were accompanied by lyre playing."

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyre ; Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN8LcLIgH3Q

So we have both, the name of a bird and of an instrument.

[AlexP]

Hello :-)

Because of this reason:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.msg146274#msg146274 ,

we had change the name from "Rockbox Player" to "Lyre".

I think that is an excellent name!

[Llorean]

I would agree, it's an excellent name choice.

[LambdaCalculus]

Agreed as well. It's a nice name.

[Bagder]

I remember that others developers as Bagder told since begin that didn't believe on it because we can't do an attractive looking player as Ipods or Sansas.

That's not exactly what I said nor what I believe in, but I doubt it matters much...

I just love the new name.

[BdN3504]

"A Lyrebird is either of two species of ground-dwelling Australian
birds, most notable for their superb ability to mimic natural and
artificial sounds from their environment."

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyrebird ; Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjE0Kdfos4Y

Yes, that's quite an amazing bird, good choice.

[scharkalvin]

Does this development board look like it could also be a target?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Samsung-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ220354907595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220354907595&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

Lots of them listed for under $100 US.
Looks like it has the required d/a, usb, and lcd already there.  Touch screen could be used instead of buttons for UI.

[casainho]

Does this development board look like it could also be a target?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Samsung-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ220354907595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220354907595&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

Lots of them listed for under $100 US.
Looks like it has the required d/a, usb, and lcd already there.  Touch screen could be used instead of buttons for UI.

We already discussed that Samsung S3C2440. Read more on other messages of this post.

Right now we are with Atmel AT91SAM9260 and it's almost done, like 95% is done ;-)

[casainho]

scharkalvin,
That's a great board, but you will need to look into the price on the tools. Atmel, the board in which casainho has, does have a free tool chain. Most boards have fair priced tools and some are very high price. Your project will reflect the price of the tools, but it does come with Linux installed or a limited windows package to install. The installed package isn't any use for programming a chip, unless you found a way. I found boards that some come with free tools, but they're limited tools. Good luck with your project and please inform us with your progress, it's a pleasure to here from you.

I believe the compiler is the same, the GCC ARM. I did prefer Atmel because of great documentation and example codes, and that's being proving valuable!! :-) -- this was my first time with ARM, with 32 bits, with DMA, C startup file, linker script, JTAG debug, colour LCD, SD Card, audio DAC, etc.

[scharkalvin]

I also like Atmel, though I've only used their AVR uC's.   They
make a nice jtag too (though I don't think their AVR jtag works
with their Arm chip.)

The board I saw on ebay looked interesting mostly because it looked like it could be packaged as is into a player.  I'm also on the outside looking in at what you guys have done, I hope it ends up as a custom board design that will be available for purchase.

[casainho]

(...)  hope it ends up as a custom board design that will be available for purchase. (...)

We need first to finish actual "prototype", to have something to show and to promote the idea near the companies as SparkFun, Olimex, etc.

We can also promote the idea on Youtube... there may be the chance for some particular(s) with money to make the idea true, investing money and time to produce it and sell, there are people doing this, production on home and selling on Ebay, for example.

[Tirithen]

Would adding a microphone/line-in connector be as easy as connecting to the LLINEIN/RLINEIN pins of
the TLV320AIC23 on the hardware side?
Would there be a lot of code needed to make it (kind of driver?) work together with the recording functionality allready in Rockbox firmware? This would be a big gain to be able to record stuff.

[casainho]

Would adding a microphone/line-in connector be as easy as connecting to the LLINEIN/RLINEIN pins of
the TLV320AIC23 on the hardware side?
Would there be a lot of code needed to make it (kind of driver?) work together with the recording functionality allready in Rockbox firmware? This would be a big gain to be able to record stuff.

Should be easy, because the TLV320 already have drivers for recording on Rockbox firmware. In hardware, we can have as reference the DSPdap and ARM MP3/AAC Player schematics as both do recording.

But first we need to have a basic working hardware, so first have the playing first and record for after. We need more developers and resources.

[casainho]

I just wanted to know where we can find your libraries?

Hello friendlyzookeeper.

What Libraries?

I am being using all code from Rockbox source. Sometimes I dig on Internet for others codes, as for example, right now I am looking for a CRC7 function for using on SD Card drivers and I am testing it.