Rockbox Player - Project to design and build a Free/Open hardware audio player

[bluebrother]

"We already have a header file" is not a reason, it's an excuse at best. IMO.

Not, it is the reason, and I bet that is the same reason many people use it, because that header files cames on Atmel AT91 Lib.

Seems you didn't got what I meant.
Telling "we do it this (bad) way because we already have a header" is an excuse at best IMO if told that your way is bad. Other people using the bad way isn't a reason either. A company providing a header in a (IMO) broken way isn't a valid reason for not changing either. So I still stand by my opinion that "we have a header file" as a reason is an excuse at best.

If you want to catch me on IRC I'm usually around in the evening hours CET.

[AlexJCantos]

Hi,

This thread has been about various attempts at building a player. You weren't first here. Please don't think you're the one who should tell the world what to do or not to do, and try to make use of contructive criticism instead of dismissing it out of hand.

You're right, I wasn't first here, and I don't pretend to tell anyone what they should do... however, I'm an active developer of the "Rockbox Player" (whose name we'll change shortly) and I strongly thing that anyone wishing to collaborate in this project should ask the rest of the developers about their thoughts. I think it's a good gesture and it's one of the main ideas behind open source community: sharing things and helping one another.

Besides, I don't know what criticism you're talking about, I haven't seen any criticism from dkamin and that's not what I'm commenting about. I do like criticism, mostly if it comes from the kind of people that write here, who do have real interest and knowledge about the matter in hand.

(...) As it is, we could be asking YOU to communicate more here about your software development work (patches on the tracker, and such). At the moment you've basically forked Rockbox and are working on it in your own space, rather than attempting to bring your software work back to the core project (we could probably have much of your in-progress code in SVN as long as you've been trying to follow the Rockbox coding styles, etc). (...)

Llorean, I think you were talking with Alex Cantos, however I can explain this part. I am the only one working on porting the firmware and as that, I don't have time nor knowledge to make patches. Well, I just learned recently to make patches and all this technologies were new to me at begin of the project.

I don't think this is addressed to me, and if it is I don't really understand what's the context.

Sorry if I've winded someone up, but I just pretend to be fair.

Cheers,
Alex

[casainho]

Hi Casainho,
So, is this new add on board suppose to represent the Calypso board? Maybe, you can use some of the code from "AT91SAM Internet Radio"?
I was wondering which audio chip did you go with? The wiki page states one chip, but you direct the digi-key site to a different chip.

Does anyone know where to find the page for the do's and don't on programming Rockbox?

    Thanks

I read that "AT91SAM Internet Radio" application note. I am mainly using the AT91 Lib to understand how to setup SSC to work as I2S. Also the PDC (Peripheral DMA channel).

The guy from the ARM MP3/AAC Player is using the AT91SAM7S256 and the same DAC IC. The SSC and PDC peripherals of AT91SAM7S256 should be almost equal to the ones on AT91SAM920. But that guy is not using DMA interrupt...

Right now I have DMA interrupt working. I also added on the Rockbox TLV320 drivers the SPI communication. I am being trying to understand Rockbox audio drivers...

You can see here the DAC IC we are using and the schematic and board.

[gevaerts]

OK, let's go through things in detail...

You're right, I wasn't first here, and I don't pretend to tell anyone what they should do...

Some examples :

Again please ask, not just do whatever you think.

How is that not telling anyone what to do?

Yes, you should have started introducing yourself

You mean like you did? Telling people to introduce themselves properly in your first post is an example of perfect forum behaviour I guess?

however, I'm an active developer of the "Rockbox Player" (whose name we'll change shortly) and I strongly thing that anyone wishing to collaborate in this project should ask the rest of the developers about their thoughts. I think it's a good gesture and it's one of the main ideas behind open source community: sharing things and helping one another.

Who says that everyone wants to collaborate on your specific project? People are free to do their own thing.

Besides, I don't know what criticism you're talking about, I haven't seen any criticism from dkamin and that's not what I'm commenting about.

He proposed some hardware modifications, after which you basically told him to shut up.

Frank

[casainho]

Yes, you should have started introducing yourself

You mean like you did? Telling people to introduce themselves properly in your first post is an example of perfect forum behaviour I guess?

Well, Alex Cantos did introduced himself on project wiki page, much before of this first post. And dkamin read that page before his first post, since is the page of the project, he couldn't know about the project details before reading that page.

Besides, I don't know what criticism you're talking about, I haven't seen any criticism from dkamin and that's not what I'm commenting about.

He proposed some hardware modifications, after which you basically told him to shut up.

Well, dkamin already assumed some guilty: (...) In looking back at my original post, I see that I did not use much detail (...). The only important is that everyone who wants to help, needs to get together, share the information and we all should manage our energies. Let's continue.

[AlexP]

Yes, you should have started introducing yourself

You mean like you did? Telling people to introduce themselves properly in your first post is an example of perfect forum behaviour I guess?

Well, Alex Cantos did introduced himself on project wiki page, much before of this first post. And dkamin read that page before his first post, since is the page of the project, he couldn't know about the project details before reading that page.

Irrelevant.  It was his first post here, and he went off on one with a rant about people introducing themselves.  Hypocrisy.  Do you really mean to be this internal and enforce exactly what people are and are not allowed to do?

Besides, I don't know what criticism you're talking about, I haven't seen any criticism from dkamin and that's not what I'm commenting about.

He proposed some hardware modifications, after which you basically told him to shut up.

Well, dkamin already assumed some guilty: (...) In looking back at my original post, I see that I did not use much detail (...). The only important is that everyone who wants to help, needs to get together, share the information and we all should manage our energies. Let's continue.

It is also important that you and your fellow "developers" don't immediately reject out of hand other people's views and attack them.  People are hardly likely to want to share information and collaborate when if they do some work they get shouted at and basically told to shut up when they propose any changes.

And as for guilt - come on, for heaven's sake.

[casainho]

And as for guilt - come on, for heaven's sake.

I am bad at English language, maybe I couldn't express myself, find the right word sorry.

For me, is important that people first approach to others and saying in what can help, to manage in a good way the energies, like Alex and Tom did:

Example from Alex: I CAN HELP IN: I can develop/test/improve hardware, implement software and do some visual/conceptual design. MOTIVATION: I love audio electronics, gadgets, open source and Rockbox, need any more reasons?

There is no point for being working on 2 different hardwares, dkamin should before talk with us and discuss what to do. We were working already in hardware. He is free to do whatever he wants, but if he goes alone, he can end alone doing his Rockbox port.

[AlexP]

And as for guilt - come on, for heaven's sake.

I am bad at English language, maybe I couldn't express myself, find the right word sorry.

For me, is important that people first approach to others and saying in what can help, to manage in a good way the energies, like Alex and Tom did:

Example from Alex: I CAN HELP IN: I can develop/test/improve hardware, implement software and do some visual/conceptual design. MOTIVATION: I love audio electronics, gadgets, open source and Rockbox, need any more reasons?

There is no point for being working on 2 different hardwares, dkamin should before talk with us and discuss what to do. We were working already in hardware. He is free to do whatever he wants, but if he goes alone, he can end alone doing his Rockbox port.

This is my last word on the subject, we are going round in circles and it is pretty pointless.

AlexJCantos may well have said that elsewhere, but he turned up here and lambasted someone for the exact same thing as he was doing himself.

There is very much a point in working on 2 different hardware configurations if the first one being worked on has bad and illogical hardware choices.

[Llorean]

There is very much a point in working on 2 different hardware configurations if the first one being worked on is has bad and illogical hardware choices.

Agreed, the way the first project has basically rejected outright almost any suggestion from people who might be viewed as either potential buyer, or just interested non-developers, for reasons such as "you haven't invested any money in the project so you have no say" or "It was my idea and it should be a music player" or "I've been here longer" is bound to make people want to start up projects that are more open and maybe attempt to listen to more input before they rush to spending money on a board whose design will either be thrown out anyway (a waste of money) or fall into the category of "one of the poorer Rockbox targets, feature-wise" neither of which is particularly great.

I respect what you guys want to do over all, but generally speaking you've been about as non-open as possible while claiming to be open.

[casainho]

There is very much a point in working on 2 different hardware configurations if the first one being worked on is has bad and illogical hardware choices.

No, there isn't. We are very developers so we must manage very well our energies. dkamin didn't talk about any reason for doing a 2nd hardware, and if "bad and illogical hardware choices" were the reasons, it should be discussed for the help of the project.

[AlexP]

There is very much a point in working on 2 different hardware configurations if the first one being worked on is has bad and illogical hardware choices.

No, there isn't. We are very developers so we must manage very well our energies. dkamin didn't talk about any reason for doing a 2nd hardware, and if "bad and illogical hardware choices" were the reasons, it should be discussed for the help of the project.

Everytime someone tries to discuss your hardware choices you tell them to shut up.  See Llorean's post above for examples.  This entire thread is full of examples of people saying things like, "I think this is the wrong choice for this reason" and you ignoring them.

[gevaerts]

No, there isn't. We are very developers so we must manage very well our energies. dkamin didn't talk about any reason for doing a 2nd hardware, and if "bad and illogical hardware choices" were the reasons, it should be discussed for the help of the project.

Everytime someone tries to discuss your hardware choices you tell them to shut up.  See Llorean's post above for examples.  This entire thread is full of examples of people saying things like, "I think this is the wrong choice for this reason" and you ignoring them.

Not only that, but people are free to do whatever they like, and if it is related to rockbox they are free to talk about it here.

[casainho]

Everytime someone tries to discuss your hardware choices you tell them to shut up.  See Llorean's post above for examples.  This entire thread is full of examples of people saying things like, "I think this is the wrong choice for ..." and you ignoring them.

I believe in the idea "design and build a Free/Open hardware audio player (DAP) and recorder, for use with RockBox." I remember that others developers as Bagder told since begin that didn't believe on it because we can't do an attractive looking player as Ipods or Sansas.

Rockbox exists since 2002 and I didn't saw any developer trying to do what we are trying, maybe because they can have the same opinion as Bagder.

So, I am trying to make that idea real, as the best as I can, with the money, free time and knowledge I have. I don't fell responsible for implement the others expectations about a kind of this hardware. For now I am thinking like this, even If am I doing it in a wrong way: "We are doers. We do what others only talk about." -- taken from http://www.haxx.se/

And I am sure that Rockbox code started for being a simple line of codes and did evolution, so in hardware I think we should do the same.

[gevaerts]

So, I am trying to make that idea real, as the best as I can, with the money, free time and knowledge I have. I don't fell responsible for implement the others expectations about a kind of this hardware. For now I am thinking like this, even If am I doing it in a wrong way: "We are doers. We do what others only talk about." -- taken from http://www.haxx.se/

So why are you so against other people also doing things?

[casainho]

So, I am trying to make that idea real, as the best as I can, with the money, free time and knowledge I have. I don't fell responsible for implement the others expectations about a kind of this hardware. For now I am thinking like this, even If am I doing it in a wrong way: "We are doers. We do what others only talk about." -- taken from http://www.haxx.se/

So why are you so against other people also doing things?

I am not sure that I am against it. Look, dkamin wrote:

Casainho, I would like to send you one of the prototypes when I get to that point so you can continue your development around my design.  We can talk about this in the near future.

I am against the idea of someone send me a prototype in expectation that I work on it, without discussing with me and others the hardware and so on. I think that is the only thing I am against.