Rockbox Player - Project to design and build a Free/Open hardware audio player

[aliask]

You registered just to call me a jerk and talk about the Nano port in the wrong thread?

What, you wanted him to make a new thread "Saratoa is a jerk"? And the fact that he registered just to say that certainly says something.
But anyway, I digress.

Another option you'll have to explore is the method of input. Rockbox is suited to a DAP with a lot of buttons (especially for things like the Gameboy emulator). You'll also have to decide whether to have a touch sensitive input (like the iPod's) or real tactile buttons (like the iriver H100 or H300).
Personally I prefer having tactile buttons, as it allows you to operate the player without having to look at the screen. This has a few benefits: you can use it in your pocket, and also having tactile buttons would be much easier to use for visually impaired users (who are one of the main user bases of the Rockbox firmware).

[portable]

Just to let everyone know, we are looking at making our next mp4 generation running on Rockbox. (Regardless of the current X8 firmware reverse engineering progress.) For the new machines, we should have the complete source codes, etc for Rockbox developers to play with.  

I will probably start a new thread on that when the time is right.

[roach]

Personally I prefer having tactile buttons, as it allows you to operate the player without having to look at the screen. This has a few benefits: you can use it in your pocket, and also having tactile buttons would be much easier to use for visually impaired users (who are one of the main user bases of the Rockbox firmware).

This is a good point. The goal of this project that I'm thinking of, would be to come up with a hobbyist-type open-hardware project, that people could play with the schematic and board layout, have a complete BOM, and order the parts and construct it themselves if they wish. Open-source firmware (rockbox) would be essential, and RockBox is the best! :-)

This said, I don't have the kind of money it takes to create a custom enclosure, with professional-grade molded buttons, etc, and I want to come up with buttons and enclosure that anyone can buy or sample for free, to create the project. I'll probably go with buttons over a capacitive touch sensor, simply for simplicity, though the point you raised gives another excellent reason.

[scorche]

Also, I would go with a 2.5" hard drive (unless you go with flash), as they are cheaper, more widely available, and come in larger capacities.

[Davide-NYC]

Just to let everyone know, we are looking at making our next mp4 generation running on Rockbox.

I, for one, am amazed at this. Can we get the company to contribute to development?

[portable]

We are listening.......and definitely interested.....

We are going to get help from Rockbox developers soon, to do the 1st stage of our project......keep a eye on a new thread   (Right now, waiting for some product to appear before this can start.....)

[roach]

Hi Eric,

Is this going to be an open-hardware project? (ie: public schematics, board layouts, parts list, etc.)

[portable]

Hi Eric,

Is this going to be an open-hardware project? (ie: public schematics, board layouts, parts list, etc.)

We weren't thinking about making this an open-hardware project....we were more on the line of designing the hardware, release public schematics, board layouts, parts list, etc to Rockbox developer (not public). I mean Rockbox developer will get their hands on everything they need on the hardware and source code, etc. And we leave the OS as open-source....(if you read the other thread by me, then you would know we were trying something similar with the current X8 but telechips do not provide source code to make this much further. And the current firmware reverse engineering progress seems to have stalled or at least I didn't hear any updates on it.)

And the 1st stage I was talking about was to allow Developer to work on a simplified version of the project using a simpler hardware (which is going to be mass produced anyway).....with little features just to get the Rockbox working on a particlular chip first and see how well it goes. Then, we can design new models using the same chip and implement additional features on the hardware and Rockbox/other OS (eg linux).......

Open-hardware project does sounds good but I don't know how to make it work though....progress might be too slow to be practical? (and what if Apple, etc come along and steal everyone's hard work on the hardware and make it their own?)

[roach]

Open-hardware project does sounds good but I don't know how to make it work though....progress might be too slow to be practical? (and what if Apple, etc come along and steal everyone's hard work on the hardware and make it their own?)

Well, you still have ultimate control over licensing. If you release it under, say, the LGPL, then Apple (or whoever) has to keep the design open if they want to use any portion of your design.

As well, you're not necessarily limited to relying on external parties for development. The main point (in my mind, anyway) would be:

- Anyone can build one from scratch, if they want, simply by orering the parts, BUT
- it'll be cheaper to buy either a completed player, or a kit, from you guys, since you're making them by the hundreds (or thousands) anyways. You're material costs will be lower (economy of scale) than the average hobbyist. You can charge a slight markup, and resell the required parts. AND
- for people who don't want to make the damn thing themselves, but only want an mp3 player, you can sell the completed version at your regular retail markup.

So, not only are you hitting your regular retail customers, you're also getting all the electornics and rockbox hobbyists out there who'd rather make one themselves...

[portable]

Well, you still have ultimate control over licensing. If you release it under, say, the LGPL, then Apple (or whoever) has to keep the design open if they want to use any portion of your design.

Well, I don't think that's a very good idea though. If you know how fast Chinese manufacturer can copy designs.....And the fact that this device is manufacturered in China....It will be too much of a trouble to hunt down manufacturers that violate the licences. Simply not worth it....you could be driven out of business by others imitation your design with your own blueprints!!!

Anyone can build one from scratch, if they want, simply by orering the parts

Don't you think electronic parts these days are too delicate and too small to put together yourselves? Much easier and way cheaper to just  buy the completed product.

By the way, I found this http://www.simputer.org which is a open hardware project.
And this is these are the products -
http://amidasimputer.com/
http://www.simputerland.com/
(seems not bad, except amida's site says "We do not ship to international customers at this time.")

However, we don't mind if you want to contribute any ideas we should consider to make new devices..

[roach]

If you know how fast Chinese manufacturer can copy designs.....And the fact that this device is manufacturered in China....It will be too much of a trouble to hunt down manufacturers that violate the licences.

Of course the decision is entirely yours . If you think the risks outweigh the benefits then you should follow your instinct.

Don't you think electronic parts these days are too delicate and too small to put together yourselves?

Speaking from experience, absolutely not. However, open hardware designs have to take certain human limitations into consideration. For example, a regular human being will have difficulty soldering, say, 0402 package passives. Better to stick with 0805. Or using LQFP packages instead of BGA. That sort of thing.

Much easier and way cheaper to just  buy the completed product.

And I'm sure the majority of users would agree. So you need something that's professional enough to appeal to the average consumer, but easy enough for the average electronics hobbiest. Not an easy dichotomy to address. This is why typical hardware projects are geared toward one audience or the other, but rarely both. Still, if you're willing to share your schematics and part lists with the RockBox community, I'm sure you'll find an interested audience. I know I'd be interested...

[608zz]

I'm going to list what I'd like in a Rockbox-based device:

This is a flash-based, audio-centric device:
* Enclosed slot for a SD-card, or maybe CF-card (Samsung recently made 32GB CF-cards).  The card needs to be kept safe from physical harm, so must not be exposed on the exterior of the casing.
* Monochrome screen.
* Powered by a single AA battery.  Forty hours of battery life may be possible on a flash device with a monochrome LCD, with the backlight always-off.
* Tactile controls, preferably a 5-way joystick.
* Exterior casing that completely recesses all controls.
* However much built-in flash memory as necessary.  It doesn't have to be 4+GB, since there is an accommodation for expansion cards.

[portable]

I'm going to list what I'd like in a Rockbox-based device:

This is a flash-based, audio-centric device:
* Enclosed slot for a SD-card, or maybe CF-card (Samsung recently made 32GB CF-cards).  The card needs to be kept safe from physical harm, so must not be exposed on the exterior of the casing.
* Monochrome screen.
* Powered by a single AA battery.  Forty hours of battery life may be possible on a flash device with a monochrome LCD, with the backlight always-off.
* Tactile controls, preferably a 5-way joystick.
* Exterior casing that completely recesses all controls.
* However much built-in flash memory as necessary.  It doesn't have to be 4+GB, since there is an accommodation for expansion cards.

Try the other project
http://www.s1mp3.org/

They might have something that suit whatever you are after.

We are not interested in flash mp3/mp4 because there are way too many out there and the competition is too intense.

[608zz]

I'm going to list what I'd like in a Rockbox-based device:

This is a flash-based, audio-centric device:
* Enclosed slot for a SD-card, or maybe CF-card (Samsung recently made 32GB CF-cards).  The card needs to be kept safe from physical harm, so must not be exposed on the exterior of the casing.
* Monochrome screen.
* Powered by a single AA battery.  Forty hours of battery life may be possible on a flash device with a monochrome LCD, with the backlight always-off.
* Tactile controls, preferably a 5-way joystick.
* Exterior casing that completely recesses all controls.
* However much built-in flash memory as necessary.  It doesn't have to be 4+GB, since there is an accommodation for expansion cards.

Try the other project
http://www.s1mp3.org/

They might have something that suit whatever you are after.

There isn't anything at that URL and besides, it isn't Rockbox, as far as I can tell.

We are not interested in flash mp3/mp4 because there are way too many out there and the competition is too intense.

I don't know who you're speaking for, but the thread starter already said that he would consider making a flash device.  There are no personal audio devices that meet the criteria that I mentioned.  And since the idea here was to design a device around Rockbox, there wouldn't be any competition anyway. 

I see that you are a distributer of HDDs.  Conflict of interest, perhaps?  I'm not a distributer of flash memory, I simply want a decent flash-based audio device for personal use.  It needs to be flash, because I'll use it during physical activities.  I currently use an iAudio G3, a flash-based device with more features than any other, but it has limits on the number files and folders it can have, due to an outdated processor.  Plus it doesn't have expansion capability.  Plus it doesn't have high quality recording.  Rockbox has the software functions I want, just not the availability on hardware that I can use.

[portable]

There isn't anything at that URL and besides, it isn't Rockbox, as far as I can tell.

There used to be something there, yes, not Rockbox, but another open source project I found......it is supposed to be a opensource project for those chinese flash based mp3.....that's why I say it might be similar to what you are after...

I mean it is probably easy to find someone who already made a device you are after....using a chip that Rockbox probably already runs in....(there are so many flash based mp3/mp4 device out there..........)

Our manufacturer already make some flash based mp4 that have the SD card slot....except it does not run rockbox because it uses telechips.....same chip as the X8........ie same problem we are having for the X8....