Rockbox General > Rockbox General Discussion

Proposition: SimpleBox

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bluebrother:

--- Quote from: bazmonkey on September 23, 2006, 07:53:27 AM ---The point I was getting at still remains; a poor interface that comes with a manual documenting said poor interface does not make it a good interface or an easy one.
--- End quote ---
IMO the interface is even superior to all other interfaces I've seen on such kind of devices. Calling it »poor« is just useless -- it's different, and as Linux won't change the way its terminal behaves just because some users coming from Windows aren't used to it Rockbox interface won't change just because someone isn't used to it and calls it »poor«. I also needed to get used to it the time I started using Rockbox. Every time I happen to start the OF again I'm shocked how broken the OF (and its menu and navigation) is.

Febs:

--- Quote from: Febs on September 23, 2006, 10:52:13 AM ---
--- Quote from: Llorean on September 23, 2006, 08:45:18 AM ---I thought there was a working play-button-to-wps-from-menu patch already? Like, on the tracker. That someone just needs to be browbeaten into committing..
--- End quote ---

I just tested that patch against current CVS on my iPod 5G.  It applies cleanly.  The "quick exit" part works, but the "Play to WPS from within menus" does not.

I'm compiling a build for my H100 right now and will test it there.

--- End quote ---

It  works on the H100.   Maybe there's a button mapping issue on the iPod.

keuleJ:
First of all, what's wrong with making RockBox easier to use for noobs? Maybe that not only geeks could use such a player?
We definately should find a way to make RockBox easier to use without loosing functionality.

One key for this, in my eyes, is to have good defaults and that is certainly not just for colors and fonts, but for pretty everything. If RockBox had a good default for "Max Files in Dir Browser" for each player, the average user would never have to touch this option.

I still like my proposition of having a main menu. And I still like the idea of having it popping up when you push the menu button. You still could have record button for going to rec and play button for going to wps. I just think wps, radio and recording screen are similar und should be treated similarily.
Maybe we could even stay with "press select for file browser in wps".

For start up, I think you should have the following options:


* main menu (default)
* file browser
* WPS
* recording

bluebrother:
how do you want to decide what "good defaults" are for e.g. the "Max Files in Dir Browser"? Of course you can simply use a greater value on players with a bigger memory. But that value highly depends on the way you organize your music -- I for example have organized my files in a way that a folder usually has less than 20 files. Using a higher value is simply waste in that case. Of course, as "try this first" defaults a bigger value could be used e.g. for ipods, as the chance the users are using tagcache (and thus having a pretty long "Artists" list) is pretty high.

Also, there is a main menu. What's wrong with it? You won't get the devs convinced to start in any other view than the browser. It's simple: what do you want after turning on your dap? Listening to music. To do so, you either resume the last played playlist (which then automatically switches to wps) or you need to pick some files. Thus, the only logical starting point is the browser. Starting in any menu would require another keypress to switch to the browser, and this keypress is the reason why you won't get devs convinced to start in anything else than the browser.

The "quick exit" patch makes the buttons a lot more consistent by only adding a few changes. AFAICS it isn't unlikely for this to get implemented, but apart from that (and maybe a little menu reordering) I don't see any point in adding an additional "startup" menu.

Also, I don't think it's a good idea to make Rockbox too much noob-friendly. Those noob-not-reading-the-docs questions are already annoying enough, and Rockbox is intended for people who acually want to get the potential of their hardware and are willing to dig into it. People who just want to "use" something -- why don't they simply stick to the OF? Rockbox is a different firmware. It's not for simply adding the missing functionality to the OF. IMO the user interface of Rockbox is pretty good, but you need to get used to it a bit. Which also is the case (according to my experience) for most interfaces that are "different". Once you get used to it it's logical and fast. To quote Linus Torvalds on a (different) usability issue (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-December/msg00021.html):

--- Quote ---This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of
Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will
use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long
since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do.

--- End quote ---
I believe the same applies to the usability discussion for Rockbox, so that's the point I don't think it's useful making Rockbox easier for noobs. IMHO I don't believe we want nor need users that don't care about. YMMV.

tucoz:
@bluebrother:
I have to disagree somewhat with you on this.
We are all noobs sometime, and i wouldn´t want to not have them rockbox for whatever reason.
Rockbox should be made simpler. By that, I don´t mean changing the fundamental design, but reorganizing the menu, installing a prettier theme by default. If these changes make the experience more beginner-friendly, then all good. I would like all people (to some extent) to use rockbox instead of their original firmware. If a reorganization of the main menu would lead to a more intuitive feel, then we would get less questions from newbies without changing anything in terms of functionality.
I do however agree with you on the gnome issue. I would not want to remove the tweaking heaven rockbox is. I think of rockbox as all about settings, and doing what you like with it. Not based upon what the average joe would like to do with it, and the settings he would apply.
And the devs have in fact played with the idea of being able to select if you end up in the filebrowser, or a top-level menu when you boot rockbox. So that idea looks like it could be made possible.
But, like always. Someone has to do this, and show their efforts to the community for a change to be made.

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