Proposition: SimpleBox

[Febs]

I've said this many, many times before, but IMO, the single biggest change that could be made to navigation to improve the overall intuitiveness of Rockbox is to make the "Play" button return to the WPS from the menu system and the file browser, rather than only from the file browser.  Patch 5294 did this (and some other things) before the revamp of the button handling system).  The "Play-to-WPS" functionality has not been updated to the new system.  Before the button overhaul, I used patch 5294 for several months, and I really believe that it improves the overall consistency of the interface without any downside.

[Yotto]

I agree, Febs.  I was using Senab's build (which does go to WPS with play from almost anywhere) and switched to the base build for a bit, and it was very frustrating.  I never knew what 'Play' would do.

[mnhnhyouh]

I have not been using Rockbox for a very long time, only since it was released on the iRiver. H3xx.  I now use it on a 5G 60Gb iPod.

I like the interface. I love having long lists of options.

If you are going to put some sort of preset on the EQ, I would ask it is flat.

There are some whose first impression might scare them off, I think a better looking wps loaded as default would stop them running away. If you are going this way, I would suggest a full colour default wps on those platforms that support it.

For me, the idea of Rockbox is not stripped down simplicity, but a music firmware offering many options, and  customisability. This comes at a price of a complex interface.

Maybe the interface could be made less complex without compromising options, if so, then I am for it. But I would not trade one option for an interface that was twice as easy to use.

h

[DrSpud]

I just wanted to say I really think we need to realize that an intuitive interface != a simplified/feature reduced interface. So here's what I did. I rearranged (and renamed) a number of the options in a way that makes better sense to me, and made a patch: http://drspud.no-ip.com/better_menus.patch
There's nothing removed or duplicated, just moved. This is closer to my idea of a streamlined interface and to what I think most people would expect. Thoughts?

[JdGordon]

there is a wiki page and forrum thread dedicated to rearranging the menus into a more logical order...

[keuleJ]

Here are a couple of my humble ideas:

• make a "main menu"
  • Browse files
  • WPS (Maybe now playing or something)
  • Radio
  • Recording
  • Settings
  • Browse Plugins
• Play Button always goes to WPS
• Rec Button always goes to Recording

Of course you could configure that on startup, you go to the main menu (default) or to WPS, WRS, Radio

[belly917]

Here are a couple of my humble ideas:

• make a "main menu"
  • Browse files
  • WPS (Maybe now playing or something)
  • Radio
  • Recording
  • Settings
  • Browse Plugins
• Play Button always goes to WPS
• Rec Button always goes to Recording

Of course you could configure that on startup, you go to the main menu (default) or to WPS, WRS, Radio

I'd have to agree with keuleJ, while I've never had problem navigating the interface of rockbox, it's always bothered me that having the entry point for the radio or the recording screen in the settings menu seemed like an afterthought.  I understand that the radio or recording is not available on all rockbox targets so this menu may only consist of 4 items in some instances.

Of course this opens up some new questions:
Is the WPS also for the radio play & recording now?
What happens when you press navi* in the WPS?
Does pressing the a/b* button anywhere bring you back to the main menu?"
^{*iriver buttons used for example}

........Also a lot to be done with the first impression of rockbox. And a simple fix to that is to provide a demo.cfg with a prettier wps, larger font etc. ..........

First impressions are very important, and while some techno-geeks such as myself can see the benefits of the features of rockbox, there are alot of users who get hung up on glitzy things, and even if they understand the benefit of extra features, they get caught up on the default screen being "ugly".

I propose that rockbox hosts a "default rockbox color wps" design competition.  This wps should scale well across all the color targets and would present an initial unified front to the new rockbox user community.  (this is something I've been wanting to attempt myself for a while, but recently all my attention has been trying to get my mythtv box to work!)

a little more than 2 cents, but I hope it's useful

[Llorean]

Actually, there is an included WPS that looks pretty good, and works on all targets (including grayscale) except possibly the small H10s. And for some reason, being early in the morning, its name has completely dropped from my mind.

One of the core concepts of Rockbox is that it's based around the filetree (or tagcache browser) and that the WPS is a layer on top of that, not the main screen. Reorganizing it so that you start in the menu, and file browser is an option in there is quite contrary to the conceptual structure of Rockbox as it is currently.

[mnhnhyouh]

I propose that rockbox hosts a "default rockbox color wps" design competition.  This wps should scale well across all the color targets and would present an initial unified front to the new rockbox user community.  (this is something I've been wanting to attempt myself for a while, but recently all my attention has been trying to get my mythtv box to work!)

a little more than 2 cents, but I hope it's useful

Now that, I think, is a *very* good idea.

Llorean, what do you think?

h

[Llorean]

iCatcher, that was its name. It has versions for nearly all targets, and uses different fonts on many of them so that it's not identical, but rather adapted for each. I personally am not terribly fond of it (since it seems very inspired by the iPod look) but it fits this need.

I certainly wouldn't mind if someone came up with a unique-to-Rockbox WPS that worked on all targets, but I would say that it needs to work on all bitmap displays, not just all color ones.

[mnhnhyouh]

Here is where I become unsure of how separate builds are put together.

Is it possible to have a different default wps for each build. That way when a new user boots to RB the first time they are greeted with a nice interface?

h

[Genre9mp3]

iCatcher, that was its name. It has versions for nearly all targets

Actually it currently has versions for _all_ targets since 18 of September!

18 Sep 19:17
Hardeep Sidhu
"iCatcher/UniCatcher WPS updates by Ioannis Koutoulakis: code update to the new volume/battery enum system and new versions for H10 5GB, Gigabeat and X5 remote"

[Llorean]

At the moment the default WPS is actually hard coded into Rockbox in a way where it would be a hassle to have a different one loaded for different players.

Here's where the interesting bit comes in: The plan is to move to the config mostly being saved in a file, rather than on a sector, which would mean the default WPS can actually be set to a file by setting the line in the included default config file, I would think, and so since each player includes a different version of iCatcher, or whatever WPS, each one would load its version of it quite easily, I think.

Remember, this is speculation, but I *think* it should be doable easily if/when that system is implemented. Until then, not as easy since the default wps is hard-coded, but if you could convince someone to load a .cfg file as their first action, it could of course change the theme to something prettier.


Genre9mp3: That is good to hear. Clearly I'm out of date.

[keuleJ]

One of the core concepts of Rockbox is that it's based around the filetree (or tagcache browser) and that the WPS is a layer on top of that, not the main screen. Reorganizing it so that you start in the menu, and file browser is an option in there is quite contrary to the conceptual structure of Rockbox as it is currently.

Well then let me play Advocatus Diaboli and say that this structure is maybe not suitable anymore for the newer players with more options (radio and recording for instance) and that we should think about something different.
Even a graphic menu would be possible, I think. Maybe optional, maybe not for all targets, but possible.
Reading default values automatically from a config file and using a good theme (eg. iCatcher) would be great.

[Llorean]

I'm not sure there's much benefit to come from a graphical menu. It'll cost in battery life for what is essentially eye-candy, and I don't know how that relates to actually making it more user friendly.

As for the "newer players" thing, some of the oldest Rockbox players had FM radio and recording, so that's not going to fly as an argument in favour of moving the main screen to the menu. In the case of Recording devices there's usually a recording button, and the plan is to eventually allow this to invoke the recording screen anyway, most likely, so again there's a one-button press to get to the screen you want.