microphone for H120

[perik]

hi!

I´m going to use my Iriver H120 for recording sounds in different atmospheres, sometimes very quiet sounds (if u excuse the expression, dont think its correct english)

have anyone got a microphone tips for me. I dont want to use the preamp in the rockbox to much, not louder than + 20DB cause noticed it started to be some hizz and bums and want to avoid that. and I dont want to use an extarnal preamp cause then there are so much things to carry around. And as I understand there are no mic-in on the H120 as I understood there are on the 320, right?

so do anyone know a good sounding microphone with loud outputlevel (or what its called?) ?

I have been looking on the two microphones: Sony ECM-MS907 and the cheaper one Sony ECM-DS70P. Do anyone have any experience of these two mics and how they works with H120 and rockbox?

Can you anywhere in the specifications see what "outputlevel" it comes from the mics if u look on this site: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/%20INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=pa_PADepartmentAccessories_Microphones_DigitalMics&ProductSKU=ECMDS70P&TabName=specs&var2=

or this:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=pa_PADepartmentAccessories_Microphones_DigitalMics&ProductSKU=ECMMS907&TabName=specs&var2=

Is it this?:
ECM-DS70P: Sensitivity: -38dBV, ±3.5dB for the and
ECM-MS907: Effective Output Level-56 dBm <+->4dB (0dB=1mW/Pa, 1kHz)

so the ECM-DS70P has got higher outputlevel then?

any other tips on other mics? my absolut maximum budget on a mic are about $120

can I get a good result with my H120, rockbox and a mic?

Thanks a lot for your help

/ Perik

[Jillorious]

And as I understand there are no mic-in on the H120 as I understood there are on the 320, right?

Sorry, but I cannot fully understand what you're trying to say :'(.
Both, the H1x0 and H3x0, have an internal mic, and both of them have line-in [However, the US version of the H3x0 does not bundle the external mic (although that mic is no match to the line of mics you're considering)].
Hope this answers your question.

[perik]

Both, the H1x0 and H3x0, have an internal mic, and both of them have line-in

well ... i got that form this page:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=46

there it´s said:

….So, of particular interest to anyone hoping to record with an H3x0 is the line-in port. Compared to the line-in jacks on most recording equipment, the H3x0's line-in jack is unique because, unlike most implementations that involve two separate jacks, one for line-in and the other for mic-in, the jack on the H3x0s that's labled "line-in" can serve as either. If your intention is to use the line-in jack to record audio from a microphone or other audio devices, the user must select through the user interface which of the two modes (line-in or mic-in) the jack should work in.

But anyway ... im pretty sure it´s not possible with the H120, asked just in case

my real question is if anyone have got any tips for external microphone

anyone?

/ Perik

[Jillorious]

But anyway ... im pretty sure it´s not possible with the H120, asked just in case

Actually both of them use one jack for line-in and mic-in .

[perik]

Actually both of them use one jack for line-in and mic-in .

I know that, but it seems to be possible on the H3x0 to change the impedance on that jack so the one and the same jack can work as both mic-in and line-in.

anyway, I dont think this is possible on H120 and my main question is not about that. It´s about microphones.

so anyone got any suggestion for me?

/ Perik

[petur]

loads of info can be found on http://taperssection.com (free registration required), although I'm sure they will tell you that an external preamp is the way to go for low spl recording...

[perik]

ok.

I would prefer to go without external preamp

have u got any experience of recording with those mics or similliar mics on the H120?

thanks for your reply!

/ Perik

[petur]

have u got any experience of recording with those mics or similliar mics on the H120?

yes, but for completely opposite usage, namely recording rock concerts. So no experience at all with high sensitivity mics.

Also, good mics come with a price.

Please search and ask on taperssection, lots of experienced people are there (much more than here regarding this topic)

[Dick]

An option would be an OKM microphone. It's plugged into your ears and makes very 3D like recordings. I own the cheap one, which has problems with frequencies below 40/50 Hz. Otherwise very original recordings. Click on OKM in my sig.

As for the question you did not want to ask:

... anyway, I dont think this is possible on H120 ...

The OKM and surely other mics work very well with H120/140 and do not require a separate pre-amp.

[bascule]

Actually both of them use one jack for line-in and mic-in .

I know that, but it seems to be possible on the H3x0 to change the impedance on that jack so the one and the same jack can work as both mic-in and line-in.

anyway, I dont think this is possible on H120 and my main question is not about that. It´s about microphones.

so anyone got any suggestion for me?

/ Perik

You say your main question is not about whether the line socket can double as a mic-in, but surely if you are going to use an external mic without a pre-amp to bring it up to line level, that should be your first question.

If the answer is yes, then the question is 'What un-preamped mic would be good for my purposes?'.

Although it seems that a straight-forward un-preamped mic will work, no-one (inc. myself) has yet answered the question of changing the impedance. I would have thought a standard mic plugged into a line-impedance port is not going to produce good results...

[Datman]

These are the schematics of my mono and stereo preamps.

The mono one is for a "two track" recording of a mono mic, like a Shure SM58 or a Sennheiser e835 i.e. for interviews. Circuit is inside the XLR connector; on the other side a stereo mini jack plug goes to the H120 input.

Don't worry about the L and R inputs connected together: it's safe!

The stereo preamp is for a stereo mic like a Sony MS907. The circuit is inside a thermoplastic tube on a mini jack socket; on the other side, a stereo mini jack plug goes to the H120 input.

Capacitors could be electrolythic (polarized) or not. Plastic film capacitors are better, but bigger.

Power is drawn from the H120 input.  

The gain is about 14dB, that is 14dB better in s/n ratio...

The output is not a line level signal, but a stronger mic level.

[attachment deleted by admin, too old]

[Datman]

Mono and stereo schematics

[attachment deleted by admin for age]

[petur]

I know that, but it seems to be possible on the H3x0 to change the impedance on that jack so the one and the same jack can work as both mic-in and line-in.

No it's not.

In the original iriver firmware, the selection between line-in and ext-mic only changes the range of gain that is presented.

The mic power is always available on the plug and is around 3.7V (depends on your battery charge).

That said, I have no idea how the inut impedance looks like, but iirc, there's a schematic on the input stage in the wiki (iriverport -> h1x0 hardwardware schematics)

Your only option is to get a sensitive mic, for that, you need to ask guys that know a lot about mics. Or start mailing several mic companies for advise.

Peter

EDIT: I saw you've posted your question at taperssection.com in the mean time. Hope you'll find the answer that gives you your perfect recording experiance.

[perik]

ok thanks for all replies.

Mono and stereo schematics

DATMAN,
have u built that preamp? how does it sound?

Dick,

The OKM and surely other mics work very well with H120/140 and do not require a separate pre-amp.

what about those OKM microphones. What level do u need to have the gain in rockbox for recording very quiet sounds, for example if u put the mic between to person who are sitting and talking, or even the sound from a newspaper?
I have noticed some hizz in the H120 above 20-25 in gain.

I think I will go for a preamp. Think I go for the Denecke AD20. Any comments on that preamp?

Thanks

Perik

[Datman]

I have built a stereo preamp for using with a Sony 907 stereo mic and a mono preamp for using with a Shure SM58 or a Sennheiser MD431 or e835.

Sound is very good! (But a single transistor, with a correct polarization, couldn't sound bad...)

S/n ratio, as expected, is about 14dB better.

H120 input impedance is about 2kOhms. Preamp gain = collector load / emitter load = 2k/390=5;
20 log5=14dB.
In the mono preamp, collector load is the half of 2kOhm, then emitter resistor shall be 180 Ohm (390/2=195, but standard value is 180) to have the same gain.