Menu reworking

[mightybrick]

any thoughts on my suggestion that 'sound settings' and 'playback settings' might not be the best way to organize a menu system? that there may be another way, that would group more commonly used settings away from less commonly used settings? something like

Basic-
  Volume
  Shuffle
  Repeat 
  Bass
  Treble
  EQ
  Crossfade
    Crossfade Duration
  Replaygain
  Crossfeed
 
Advanced
  Balance
  Channels
  Stereo Width
  Play Selected First
  Resume on Startup
  FF/RW steps
  Fade on stop/pause
  Auto Change Directory

Anti-Skip and Beep Volume may or may not be better suited to system settings, Optical Recording should be a recording option, and ID3 tag priority should be a display option.

i know if the menus were organized in this way, i would rarely if ever go into the advanced menu once the settings were set up the first time. if other people agree, this or something similar might be worth considering.

I think this sounds reasonable.

[Rincewind]

basic and advanced is a bad idea imho, because it is not objectivly clear what is "advanced" and you would need to remember if you want to set a basic or an advanced setting everytime you want to set an option.

I would like to see the levels how far you have to go inside the menus reduced. that would mean to put more options in the menu root. I use sound settings and playback settings the most, so I think it could be worth discussing about putting playback settings in the root. Personally, playlist settings could go inside general settings. I actually go inside general settings very often to set some playlist stuff and have to remember that these settings aren't there...

Some other minor suggestions I like to repeat here:
- Sleep timer in menu root (it is not actually a "setting", rather a function, so it shouldn't be buried inside general settings -> system)
- "Show recent bookmarks" should only be visibile if you have the setting "keep a list of recent bookmarks" enabled, because otherwise it is completely useless (and on first position!)

[Yotto]

Why is sound (The only option on that menu that you never ever ever need to go into, as it's easier and more logical to do it from the WPS) the first option on the sound menu?  Is the iPod (the only DAP I've used) the only target that allows you to change the volume from the WPS?  If not, shouldn't volume be the LAST option on the menu, and something a bit more likely to be chosen get the first spot?

The first spot should be where the single most used feature goes.  That way, it's the easiest to get to.

[aliask]

I completely agree with Rincewind, on all counts.

@Yotto:
Some people seem to use the Sound Settings menu a lot - and don't even want it moved from the top-level menu - so clearly it does get used by some people. The least I can do it leave it at the top so they don't whinge too much

I've updated the wiki page that Febs linked. Once again, I encourage as much input as possible on the topic.

[keuleJ]

I know I maybe repeat myself. But what do you think about a menu item where you could get to the wps?
Why are the recording screen and the fm radio menu items while the wps isn't? This doesn't seem logical to me. For me these three screens (wps, recording and radio) should somehow be treated similarily.
You can get to the menu from the file browser, too.

[Llorean]

Choosing to go to the recording screen or the FM radio from the menu both have functions. Displaying the WPS is pointless if music isn't already playing, and if music *is* already playing (or you want to resume playback) you just press Play in the filetree (and probably soon the same button in the menu) to resume playback and show the WPS.

If there's already a one-button solution to get to the WPS, why have a menu item as well?

[Yotto]

@Yotto:
Some people seem to use the Sound Settings menu a lot - and don't even want it moved from the top-level menu - so clearly it does get used by some people. The least I can do it leave it at the top so they don't whinge too much

Sorry, I said "Sound" where I meant "Volume"

If there's already a one-button solution to get to the WPS, why have a menu item as well?

Well, they do it for volume...

However, a limited amount of redundancy isn't a bad thing, and we'd finally be able to see all those fancy "stop" graphics we've been drawing.

The ideal in my mind would be customizable menus, which were actually simple text files or a directory structure (Like Windows does it).  Have some "Administrator" menu options that you can't change, including a "Reset to defaults" for if we screw it up, but other than that, let the user do whatever he/she wants.

[Llorean]

In response to the Yotto regarding the volume setting:

In the case of someone wanting to make sure the volume is at a safe level before starting playback, or set volume for a plugin (Doom, Rockboy) the volume menu serves a purpose. Going to the WPS without resuming the music is, in a practical sense, useless.

[aliask]

@Yotto:
While I too think that the volume setting is mostly redundant for my uses, I'm reluctant to completely remove settings unless there is a big push for it, just in case one person out there does actually use it.

I also think that customizable menus wouldn't be nice, but it would be difficult to manage. If the file gets accidentally deleted, blanked or corrupted, I can imagine people having a hard time with it.
In addition to that, coding it would be a bitch, I can't even begin to think how I'd manage it, but then again, I'm not a very experienced programmer.

I've made a patch which I've attached to the Wiki page that changes the menu's to how they are in the Wiki. Nothing like actually seeing what it's like to use.

[Yotto]

In response to the Yotto regarding the volume setting:

In the case of someone wanting to make sure the volume is at a safe level before starting playback, or set volume for a plugin (Doom, Rockboy) the volume menu serves a purpose. Going to the WPS without resuming the music is, in a practical sense, useless.

That is two uses for the control that I never considered.  I currently, if I'm worried about the volume, check the dB level when the WPS starts and take advantage of the scroll wheel causing playback to stop to lower the volume before I hear a thing.  It's probably a bad habit to get into, if the scrollwheel thing gets fixed I'll have a rude awakening.

But now that I can see that there /is/ a reason for it, I'll get off the "delete it" kick.  And as that use could make volume the most used option in the sound menu, I'll even get off my "move it" kick.

One last kick to get me off of is the "Playlist" first before "Sound", as I personally use the "Playlist" option (And the "Reshuffle within it, which is last instead of first) all the time and the "Sound" option never.  It'd be nice to just hit 'select' twice to reshuffle the playlist, or 'select', scroll to the bottom (which is actually pretty easy, at least on the ipod) and 'select' again to reshuffle isn't bad

And I'm starting to "View Current Playlist" more and more, and that's option #1 currently.

[aliask]

Ah - it looks like we're actually talking about different menus! :p

The one I'm reworking is the main menu, not the onplay menu (the one you access by holding select in the WPS or on a file), although it could be argued that it needs a rework too (nowhere near as major as the main menu though).

[Yotto]

I was, actually.  To be honest, I don't use the Main Menu near as much as the Onplay menu   Frequently, I just hit 'play' on bootup because I want to continue listening to whatever I stopped listening to the last time.  If it's not what I wanted, I head into the onplay menu or the file browser to make my change.
But yes, the main menu is kind of a mess. 

[Febs]

I think that we should try to use the correct menu names to keep this discussion from getting too confusing.  The "onplay" menu is the File Context Menu or the WPS Context Menu, depending on the context in which you are using it.

I wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion that "Playlists" should be high up, and probably first, in the Main Menu, considering how integral playlists are to Rockbox's operation.

[aliask]

Sorry, it's just habit because that's what it's called in the source code, and I've never heard it referred to outside of there. WPS Context menu it is!

As for moving Playlist - seems logical to me, I'll update the wiki page

[ryran]

Sleep timer in menu root (it is not actually a "setting", rather a function, so it shouldn't be buried inside general settings -> system)

Awesome. Whole-heartedly agree.

Also, I third the moving up of playlist in the context menu. I would absolutely love that.