Horizontal scroll feature

[dunno]

I tried the horizontal scroll feature and think it's unuseable in its current form, it scrolls far to quickly to the right for it to be of any use, it would be more usefull if one could set the horizontal scroll steps, and be ble to horizontally scroll one screen sideways a 'side click' at a time.

on another note...

in my opinion, rockbox menu's are becoming bloated, and the navigation thereof is turning into a MAZE of very carefully timed button presses...

[JdGordon]

re the horiz scrolling feature, i dont use it but i know i have some folders where the file names are waaay too long for the display and now the feature is easier to use i might...

as for the menus becoming bloated... the usual answer applies.. make a patch and get it commited... I tihnk there is a wiki page for discussion on how to clean up the menus (and if there isnt, please start one and start suggesting)...

[roolku]

I completely agree with dunno. Navigation with this patch is a pain. Apart from the lost repeat functionaliy (navigating menus is now a frantic clicking orgy), the fact that it now triggers on the off-flank is completely unintuitive on the h120 with the joystick: you move the stick left (nothing happens) you move the stick back right to the middle position (it goes one level left in the menu). WTF?

While I can see it might be useful for people with really long filenames - why does it also apply to menus? Surely for the rare occasions where one doesn't know what the long text means just moving the cursor there and wait for the scrolling will be enough? And if not the shift-click seems perfectly sufficient to me.

Roolku

[Rincewind]

I posted to the dev mailing list because of this. This is what I wrote:

There are a few things I like about the new button definition for
horizontal scrolling in lists but there are some things that I don't
like, because it makes navigation clumsier for me.

What I like:
 It isn't a key combo anymore, so I might actually use it regularily

But what I don't like:
- It is not possible to get back to root in file browser and to leave
all menus quickly anymore
For leaving menus and going up in folders, the old functionality can
be restored without breaking the new scrolling. If the screen is in
the leftmost scrolling position (the default case) then a long press
of LEFT doesn't do anything, so we can enable the previous behavior
(go all levels up fast) again. The scrolling code could check in which
position the screen is in, and if there is nothing to scroll, pass the
key back to the list handeling code.

- If you press left or right a little bit too long it starts scrolling
when I actually want to change folders.
My suggestion is to make the duration for a short press longer (only
in this special case, if that is possible)

Horizontal screen scrolling could be automatically deactivated if
every visible list entry fits on the screen completely.

[dunno]

as for the menus becoming bloated... the usual answer applies.. make a patch and get it commited... I tihnk there is a wiki page for discussion on how to clean up the menus (and if there isnt, please start one and start suggesting)...

its not about making another patch with an alternative set of menus, It's about
1). The user friendliness of the CURRENT menu system.
2). How many more additional creative button presses can the menu system support.

I just wonder when the developers will render rockbox unusable due to user paralysis. I really don't want to carry a cheat sheet for button presses around because I dont use my unit regularly, and what about the sightless people, what are they supposed to make of the menu selections which are a Maze of precisely timed button presses. How many more creative button presses can be inlcuded, because programmers aren't done yet...

[JdGordon]

ok, well im not sure what you mean by creative button presses.. but I have been working for the last while on comepltly redoing the button system, and today i added the option to turn off this horizontal scrolling setting... the other thing that the patch does is make the entire UI much more consistent... it should be commited soonish...

[Bagder]

I just wonder when the developers will render rockbox unusable due to user paralysis.

The developers are always stuck between the crowd thet yells for more features done differently and the other crowd that yells less features or done the other way. You just happen to join one side and sit there shouting and can't see the other team and certainly not the ones in between it seems.

Also remember that you are using the bleeding edge development builds so count yourself as a test pilot.

But of course we need user feedback, even negative such, to know how to proceed next.

[Febs]

as for the menus becoming bloated... the usual answer applies.. make a patch and get it commited... I tihnk there is a wiki page for discussion on how to clean up the menus (and if there isnt, please start one and start suggesting)...

I just wonder when the developers will render rockbox unusable due to user paralysis.

I see a lot of complaining here and not many suggestions for improvements.

[Rincewind]

Febs: I have posted some suggestions to make horizontal scrolling more usable (or the other way round, depends on your view). Opinions?

I don't think the menu system is too complicated. everything is organized in a tree-like menu and you only need fancy button combos to access some shortcuts (quickmenu, etc.) which you don't need to use if you don't want to.
I have to admit, I'm on the "more features? Great!" side 

I tried to rework the menu structure a bit once, but is rather complicated to find a working structure that is worth mentioning. The only thing that I ended up with in my personal build is to put sleep timer in the menu root and to hide Recent Bookmarks when it is not activated

[Llorean]

I personally was quite happy with the old method of horizontal scrolling. I wouldn't mind at all if the patch were backed out, personally.

[Mikerman]

Making a suggestion  ( ), I always appreciate when the keystrokes can be done one-handed.  Otherwise, they often get to be awkward and not at all do-able when driving, while exercising, etc.  This is a major handicap, it seems to me, with the current A-B looping option--I love its capabilities but just wish that the feature could be done one-handed, such as through the use of the REC button.  Perhaps that is one of the matters being considered for the key-reassignment process.

[Llorean]

You've yet to offer a suggestion that doesn't decrease its functionality though.

[Mikerman]

Actually, I have:  allow the A-B looping initially to be set by use of the REC button, and allow the A and B positions to be moved by the same button assignments as at present once A-B are set (that is, by play + left/right)--that way, everything is the same except for the initial setting of the loop, which is done in one-handed and simple fashion by a quick press of the REC button alone.  Presumably, then, a further quick REC press could turn the feature off.  All without further having to separately set the repeat option to A-B looping.

[Llorean]

The problem with that is that now you're using one button and two button combos for what is a relatively minor combo. The solution shouldn't simply be "Add another button to do it the other way" as that doesn't really solve anything. It's just one less button that can be used for other things.

[Mikerman]

But the fact of the matter is that it (the REC button) isn't being used for other things now.  And if it would be deemed more economical, REC + left/right could be used to move the A-B positioning in place of PLAY + left/right (actually, that would make more sense in my scheme).  This would make the system more approachable and, hence, usable, which seems to be valuable in and of itself--that is a solution.

These 2-handed button assignments are cumbersome, and impede use.  I can't state numbers, but I've read of at least one recent user who keeps the iRiver firmware around for (at least partly) the A-B ease-of-use looping reason.

And by the way, in the current system, one must first set A-B looping in the A-B quick screen, and then set the left and right points thru the 2-handed system--that's 4 clicks.  The proposed embodiment brings that down to 2 easier presses.  But you're right, the REC button gets involved.  For the ease of use and absent other needs, that seems a fair use.

(Please note that I state all this in ignorance of the workings of the other players.)