4th Gen manual installation woes

[makeprop]

Hi All,

So I've finally gotten a shipment of various SD -> CF (ii) and CF -> 1.8" ide adaptors.
1. I'm able to install rockbox on this ipod using its original HDD. It boots and loads fine with the original HDD.
2. I connected the SD-XC Extreme CF Adapator "3rd Generation" to it. It looks like the following, it was purchased from AliExpress and says Made in Taiwan

I also have on me a sandisk 64gb and another kingston 256gb microsd card.
3. I have attempted various things but will try summarise what kind of makes sense.
i) I've tried following the manual installation attempt as listed on the website, I formatted the drive to FAT32, I then dd'ed the 20gb MBR to the drive, and uploaded the firmware and formatted the last partition. When placing the SD card using this mode in the adaptors the ipod wasn't being detected at all, not by Rockbox Utility, not by iTunes or the ipodpatcher.
i_a: I also tried dd'ing just the first 446 bytes as well to hide partition information of the 20gb but this also made no difference. I had more luck with the full 512 bytes actually.
ii) when formatting the drive to FAT32 and setting it up in restore mode I was able to get iTunes to detect it but didn't have luck doing a restore.
ii) i then tried formatting the drive to exFat - no luck
iii) i tried formatting the drive to Ext4 - iTunes / Windows picked it up and i tried having iTunes restore it, the first attempt iTunes was restoring it for at least 20 minutes but then my laptop crashed because I plugged in another drive to do something in parallel
iv) I tried again and have been waiting about 20 minutes again with it finishing off saying the "iPod could not be restored".
v) I also tried using the iFlash CF adaptor from Tarkan and this made no difference, if anything I had more luck with the no brand aliExpress adaptor.
vi) At one point (I believe this was with a gnome-disks formatted attempt) Rockbox was able to read and detect the mount point, but failed doing anything else, I've not been able to reproduce this or get back to this state, but I haven't tried much more at this point because I'm determined to get the FAT stuff sorted:
vii) Note I also tried the Tarkan on an ipod 5.5 but had no luck there.
viii) I also tried having the SD card formatted to NTFS - again, in this state I was able to get the iTunes to at least detect the ipod and attempt a restore but it kept crashing.

I suspect there's something else going on here that's preventing proper comms with the disk which is why windows/iTunes/rockbox/patcher keep crashing. I've also had similar issues with detection on my linux PC.

Code: [Select]

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Error reading partition table - possibly not an Ipod
Error reading partition table - possibly not an Ipod
Error reading partition table - possibly not an Ipod

[rbsettings.cpp:163 Info] GET U: "mountpoint" "E:/"
[rockboxinfo.cpp:31 Info] Getting version info from rockbox-info.txt
[selectiveinstallwidget.cpp:248 Info] continuing install with stage 0
[selectiveinstallwidget.cpp:284 Info] installing bootloader
[rbsettings.cpp:163 Info] GET U: "platform" "ipod4g"
[playerbuildinfo.cpp:268 Info] T: "ipod4g/bootloadermethod" QVariant(QString, "ipod")
[httpget.cpp:84 Info] setting cache folder to "C:/Users/os/AppData/Local/Temp/rbutil-cache"
[rbsettings.cpp:163 Info] GET U: "platform" "ipod4g"
[playerbuildinfo.cpp:268 Info] T: "ipod4g/bootloaderfile" QVariant(QString, "")
[rbsettings.cpp:163 Info] GET U: "mountpoint" "E:/"
[utils.cpp:134 Info] resolving path "E:/" -> "E:/"
[rbsettings.cpp:163 Info] GET U: "platform" "ipod4g"
[playerbuildinfo.cpp:268 Info] T: "ipod4g/bootloadername" QVariant(QString, "/ipod/bootloader-ipod4g.ipod")
[playerbuildinfo.cpp:326 Info] U: bootloader/download_url QVariant(QString, "https://download.rockbox.org/bootloader")
[rbsettings.cpp:163 Info] GET U: "mountpoint" "E:/"
[utils.cpp:502 Info] resolving device name "E:/"
[utils.cpp:563 Info] device name is 1
[bootloaderinstallipod.cpp:253 Info] ipodpatcher: overriding scan, using \\.\PhysicalDrive1
[bootloaderinstallipod.cpp:188 Info] installed: BootloaderUnknown
[utils.cpp:502 Info] resolving device name "E:/"
[utils.cpp:563 Info] device name is 1
[bootloaderinstallipod.cpp:253 Info] ipodpatcher: overriding scan, using \\.\PhysicalDrive1
[bootloaderinstallipod.cpp:188 Info] installed: BootloaderUnknown
[utils.cpp:502 Info] resolving device name "E:/"
[utils.cpp:563 Info] device name is 1
[bootloaderinstallipod.cpp:253 Info] ipodpatcher: overriding scan, using \\.\PhysicalDrive1
[selectiveinstallwidget.cpp:248 Info] continuing install with stage 1
[selectiveinstallwidget.cpp:250 Error] Last part returned error.
[selectiveinstallwidget.cpp:269 Info] All install stages done.
[rockboxinfo.cpp:31 Info] Getting version info from rockbox-info.txt
[selectiveinstallwidget.cpp:269 Info] All install stages done.
[rockboxinfo.cpp:31 Info] Getting version info from rockbox-info.txt
[system.cpp:242 Info] Searching for USB devices
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x 46dc092"
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x27c6521d"
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x b051866"
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x bda8153"
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x 5ac1203"
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x21092817"
[system.cpp:397 Warning] Got no device description (SetupDiGetDeviceRegistryProperty), item 118
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x80870029"
[system.cpp:427 Info] USB: "0x21090817"
[utils.cpp:674 Info] Added: "C:/" type "NTFS"
[utils.cpp:674 Info] Added: "E:/" type "FAT32"
[utils.cpp:254 Info] free disk space for "C:/" 44701106176
[utils.cpp:262 Info] total disk space for "C:/" 491245604864
[utils.cpp:176 Info] device type is 0x27fce90
[utils.cpp:243 Info] Volume name of "C:/" is "BLA"
[utils.cpp:254 Info] free disk space for "E:/" 63847759872
[utils.cpp:262 Info] total disk space for "E:/" 63847890944
[utils.cpp:176 Info] device type is 0x27fce90
[utils.cpp:243 Info] Volume name of "E:/" is "TEST"



Also browsing various pages online I saw that the CF adaptor reading an SD does something to the first bit in the MBR and others have suggested changing it to 00 instead of EB (but this was after the fact, and not during it being plugged into iTunes as others have noted). In fact even when using iBored or other tools to analyse the MBR they're unable to read black 0 (or any other block for that matter), they sometimes are able to detect a drive is connected but crash or see no partition when reading it through the iPod. When I take out the SD card and look at it, it's fine.

Theres a lot more that I tried btw - for instance FAT 32 LBA vs non LBA, bootable flag vs non bootable flag. I'm not at all convinced by online posts out there saying this CF adaptor works or that SD card doesn't work. I'm trying to really pin something down to understanding what's going on at the bit level in order to get to a stage where I can get lots of devices working.

I'm at the stage now where I'm taking before/after mbr snapshots to compare and see what difference anything makes, but I cannot even get one CF adaptor working.

Is anyone able to nudge me along somehow to get me moving forward? Over the weekend I'm going to try map the CF -> 1.8 pinout.

Just added two images here of what my setup looks like. I'm mindful of loading the server here.

[makeprop]

the 5.5th gen via the iFlash Tarkan was able to be restored via iTunes.
I've taken a snapshot of the MBR (when the SD card is directly plugged in) as well as a quick view of the disk management.

1. I still can't use rockbx to flash this ipod directly. (It worked fine with the original hard disk)
2. I still can't read its contents via the ipod when it's plugged in, but when looking at the disk via an SD card reader windows appears to read it fine.

Note, this is meant to be a 30gb ipod 5.5 yet the iTunes gave it a 60gb drive? (either I swapped around back covers and forgot which was the original cover/hdd for this ipod or it was modified at some stage).

In anycase I might have made a step in the right direction. I'll work towards a pin out comparison of the iFlash tarkan adaptor with these ali express adaptors and see where that gets me.

[makeprop]

Update:

Seeing as the Mini 1g has a direct CF connection I wanted to try isolate the adaptor out of the equation and just look at the CF -> SD adaptor within the 1g.

I have a 1G here whose microdrive is in otherwise working condition.

I've attached an MBR snapshot of the 4gb microdrive read via victoria
I have also attached the 64gb SD in the CF adaptor read via Victoria *through* the Ipod 1G
Then to compare that its mbr is readable fine via the SD card reader I have, you can see that there's something the CF -> SD card reader is doign that corrupts the MBR somehow.

Will try another two adaptors (all the same brand).

[makeprop]

Previous images didn't go through.

I tried again with another compact flash adaptor (same brand) and this one at least seemed to let me move a few steps forward.
1. Having the SD card formatted as FAT32 allowed iTunes to let me attempt to restore it, but it didn't do anything after that.
2. Having it formatted via NTFS wouldn't let me restore it, nor would exFat.
3. I then tried uploading the MBR of the 4g microdrive to the 64gb SD card via the ipod and then Rockbox, at least went through the motions, of installing onto the ipod.

However this still didn't work upon rebooting, presumably becuase the parition tables are still messed up somehow.

I suspect something is up with the adaptor such that it's messing up with the way the parition tables are being read.

[Bilgus]

Interesting thanks for keeping us updated

[makeprop]

Do you guys know if the back 632-0286 iPod ribbon cable needs to be attached as part of a boot cycle (if I don't want the hold switch activated)
I never know if it's actually affecting the boot sequence or not.

[makeprop]

So,

Here's a pattern I'm beggining to see:
I've a 16gb Sandisk SD card that I had lying around from an old camera. I've FAT formatted it via Windows, chucked in the CF Type 2 Adaptor and put it in an iPod 1099 30GB
1. Windows/iTunes immediately detected it wanted a format/restore, so I have iTunes perform a restore.
2. The restore completes but the ipod remains unbootable.
3. Attempting to install rockbox - it detects the ipod, and installs rockbox, but again it does not boot upon a powercycle
4. However looking at the disk contents of the SD card via an SD card reader directly I can see that the contents are correct - see the file structure there. However when reading its contents via the iPod interfaced via the USB windows reports that it needs formatting etc.


Reading the MBR via the iPod

5A 04 FF 3F 00 00 10 00 00 00 40 02 3F 00 DD 01 00 20 00 00 30 42 31 31 32 46 44 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 00 10 00 04 00 65 52 20 76 2E 31 20 33 43 46 31 2D 30 33 20 37 44 53 74 20 20 6F 46 43 41 20 61 64 74 70 72 65 56 20 2E 31 20 33 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 80 00 00 00 0F 00 00 00 02 00 00 07 00 FF 3F 10 00 3F 00 00 20 DD 01 01 01 00 20 DD 01 00 00 07 01 03 00 78 00 78 00 F0 00 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FE 00 00 06 01 88 04 50 00 40 01 88 04 50 00 40 3F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

reading the MBR via the SD card reader:

EB 58 90 6D 6B 66 73 2E 66 61 74 00 02 40 40 00 02 00 00 00 00 F8 00 00 20 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 50 6F 07 80 3B 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 01 00 06 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80 00 29 4F D3 AE B7 54 45 53 54 46 41 54 33 32 20 20 46 41 54 33 32 20 20 20 0E 1F BE 77 7C AC 22 C0 74 0B 56 B4 0E BB 07 00 CD 10 5E EB F0 32 E4 CD 16 CD 19 EB FE 54 68 69 73 20 69 73 20 6E 6F 74 20 61 20 62 6F 6F 74 61 62 6C 65 20 64 69 73 6B 2E 20 20 50 6C 65 61 73 65 20 69 6E 73 65 72 74 20 61 20 62 6F 6F 74 61 02 6C 65 20 66 6C 6F 70 70 79 20 61 6E 64 0D 0A 70 72 65 73 73 20 61 6E 79 20 6B 65 79 20 74 6F 20 74 72 79 20 61 67 61 69 6E 20 2E 2E 2E 20 0D 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA


Searching around for EB 58 90 I come across the usual Bios Parameter Block (BPB) descriptions of that first sector whereby the following I understand (following from a white paperfatgen103.pdf)

BS_jmpBoot
Offset (Byte): 0
Size (Bytes) : 3
Decsription: Jump instruction to boot code. This field has two allowed forms:
jmpBoot[0] = 0xEB, jmpBoot[1] = 0x??, jmpBoot[2] = 0x90 and jmpBoot[0] = 0xE9, jmpBoot[1] = 0x??, jmpBoot[2] = 0x?? 0x?? indicates that any 8-bit value is allowed in that byte. What this forms is a three-byte Intel x86 unconditional branch (jump) instruction that jumps to the start of the operating system bootstrap code. This code typically occupies the rest of sector 0 of the volume following the BPB and possibly other sectors. Either of these forms is acceptable. JmpBoot[0] = 0xEB is the more frequently used format.

Now, digging around online for "5A 04 FF" I find all kinds of other things, namely the first is that there is no actual instruction set that describes what 5A, 04 and FF might refer to, for now.

I ran into an old Japanese blogger's page from 2006 that might give a clue, among others that also throw me off in the direction of S.M.A.R.T/ATA/SCSI rabbit holes.

http://www.keshi.org/blog/2006/06/ipod2.html
http://www.keshi.org/blog/2006/06/ipod1.html

As for the ATA/SCSI rabbit hole:

https://github.com/westerndigitalcorporation/pt-tools

Seeing that there was a matching series of bytes I'm wondering if the 5A 04 FF xx xx (which there were many more matching strings for various kinda of FAT/driver records out there) has something to do with the device writing back to the MBR because it's trying to use the SD/CF card thinking its an ATA device?

[speachy]

I've a 16gb Sandisk SD card that I had lying around from an old camera. I've FAT formatted it via Windows, chucked in the CF Type 2 Adaptor and put it in an iPod 1099 30GB
1. Windows/iTunes immediately detected it wanted a format/restore, so I have iTunes perform a restore.
2. The restore completes but the ipod remains unbootable.

Given #2 I suggest you contact the maker of the adapters you've used; there is nothing that Rockbox can do for you if the iPod boot ROM is unable to load the runtime firmware (ie iPodOS and/or the rockbox bootloader) off of the disk.

#1 (ie the iTunes restore) is all that is needed to re-initialize the storage to the point where the stock firmware will boot and operate.  #0 doesn't actually matter, because iTunes partitions these 5th gens in a fairly unusual manner -- Despite the stock drive (and any 3rd party replaements) nominally using 512B logical sector sizes, it sets up the partition table and filesystems with 2K sector addressing, and reports these 2K sector sizes via USB.  Due to the drive natively using 512B sector sizes, if you try to partition the drive outside of the ipod, it will be set up with 512B sectors and that will fail to work if you swap it back in.  (The 6th gen does something similar except it uses 4K sector sizes)

Then there's the fact that iTunes partitions the drive in a way such that a small chunk before the data parition (64MB maybe? I forget) is set aside for the stock firmware; this is what the boot ROM tries to read.  (The 1st gen through 5th gen, both minis, and 1st gen nano work in this way; the 6th gen classic, nano2g, and later models have the runtime firmware entirely in flash)

[makeprop]

Thanks for the response,

Sadly there's not much I can really do by way of contacting them.
1. All I'm waiting for now is a CF Type 2 reader, so that I can at least determine if those adaptors work well in a normal context (will do a full data integrity test to determine if there is anything wrong with the CF)
2. I have also ordered 2 different types of SD to CF adaptors so that I can compare against them.
3. I haven't done this yet though I said I would, would be to compare the pinouts on the Tarkan iFlash with an ordinary $2 cheapo adaptor from aliexpress.

I've just been frustrated with the half-baked explanations I've found everywhere online where they suggest to just write 00 over the EB Bios Parameter Block partition without explaining why. And now that I see "5A 04 FF" which I've not found anything come up in the iPod flash-mod upgrade I'm curious if this is part of the underlying issue taking place here.

[makeprop]

Hi Guys,

So I did a mapping of the pinouts. and in comparing my pinouts at least so far to https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN2293.pdf where they setup the CF in PIO IDE mode there are some subtle differences which might be negligible (will compare to Tarkan soon)

But here are the differences:
1. WE, or Write Enable in CF is pulled to Vcc in this PCB
2. Card Detect 1 and 2 are grounded in this PCB, but open in the guide - probably not an issue.

Otherwise everything else looks pretty much OK.

1	43,19,44,40,30	Gnd	26	40,30 (GND)	Card Detect should be grounded
2	11	DD3 = D3	27	10	DD11=D11
3	9	DD4 = D4	28	12	DD12=D12
4	7	DD5 = D5	29	14	DD13=D13
5	5	DD6 = D6	30	16	DD14=D14
6	3	DD7 = D7	31	18	DD15=D15
7	37	CS0	32	38	CS1=CS1
8	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	33	OPEN	(Voltage Sense should be open)
9	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	34	25	-DIOR, -DMARDY, HSTROBE vs CF IORD
10	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	35	23	IDE stop/DIOW vs IOWR
11	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	36	41	write enable is Vcc?
12	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	37	31	INTRAQ
13	41	Vcc	38	41	Vcc
14	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	39	40	Cable select is grounded
15	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	40	Open	(Voltage Sense should be open)
16	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	41	1	Reset
17	40,30	A[10:3] address pins grounded	42	27	IORDY
18	36	DA2=A2	43	21	DMARQ,'-DIOW vs CF DMREQ
19	33	DA1=A1	44	29	DMACK
20	35	DA0=A0	45	39	DASP
21	17	DD0=D0	46	34	-PDIAG/-CBLID = PDIAG
22	15	DD1= D1	47	4	DD8=D8
23	13	DD2 = D2	48	6	DD9=D9
24	32	IOCS16 IOCS16	49	8	DD10=D10
25	40,30 (GND)	Card Detect should be grounded	50	19,43,44,40,30

[makeprop]

Ok -

I've gotten one of my 4th gens and a mini working with two different CF adaptors.

It turns out the issue was two fold:

1. I worked through this more updated manual procedure: https://blog.kimiblock.top/2024/09/05/ipod-on-linux/ to restore my ipod, but arguably it would still work with iTunes but i haven't tried that yet, what I can say is that comparing my attempts with iTunes versus this way I got to the wall-charger icon 100% of the time via dd/fdisk, but never was able to see that any time during the multiple iTunes attempts (windows).
2. I had to try different wall chargers. This was key and I'd not mentioned it in the previous messages while I did see that wall plug icon, having tried multiple adaptors/ports nothing worked. I tried a samsung adaptor (just at 2.5A yet i had many other larger amperage/power banks that didn't work)

Will look to modifying the cable or figuring out exactly what distinguishes different chargers from one another.

I might safely say this issue has been resolved.

Note: the CF adaptors use the FC1307A chipset.
I have an old dell latitude X1 that was able to boot off the two different CF adaptors with different SD cards fine, WinXP, MX Linux and Windows 7. One curious thing is that the w7 install didn't work with one CF adaptor but I haven't had the chance to see what happened to the MBR during the format.. nor do i care now.