Having and using two volumes on an iPod 6th Gen classic

[speachy]

I've always wondered where the 127G limit comes from on the 6th generation classic. AFAIK the hardware is almost identical between 6th and 7th. I would imagine that it is a firmware limitation (which lives on disk?).

It is purely a limitation in Apple's firmware.

There are only minor changes in the hardware;  the only meaningful difference is full support for inline remote controls on the headphones.

Also, IIRC the 6th gen onwards store the ipod's firmware in _flash_, unlike the previous generations which place it on the disk.  (Disk mode and the like was always in flash for all generations)

[speachy]

Thinking about it a bit more, it occurs to me that the first volume is the dominant volume where the RB firmware has to be, so the second volume is like an auxilliary appendage - not an equal sibling - and it makes conceptual sense that the second volume is accessed through the first volume.  But these thoughts are just my musings and projectings - the real and definitive explanation can only come from the developers who implement this truly great stuff for us.

That is the reason.  Volume 0 is the "root" volume which holds the .rockbox directory, all others are "secondary".  We use a UNIX-like approach where all other volumes appear to be 'mounted' beneath the root, rather than a DOS/Windows approach which treats each volume as a separate namespace at the top-level.

[iPodVT]

That is the reason.  Volume 0 is the "root" volume which holds the .rockbox directory, all others are "secondary".  We use a UNIX-like approach where all other volumes appear to be 'mounted' beneath the root, rather than a DOS/Windows approach which treats each volume as a separate namespace at the top-level.

Thanks very much for this confirmation and clarification.

[iPodVT]

I'll join in for some musing.

Following the iPodWiki firmware page here: https://ipodwiki.com/wiki/Firmware

It shows that the iPod classic (6th generation) can take firmware up to 1.1.2.

However the iPod classic (7th generation) can take firmware up to version 2.0.5.

(Rockbox does not make a distinction between 6th and 7th generation and considers them all 6g.)

I've always wondered where the 127G limit comes from on the 6th generation classic. AFAIK the hardware is almost identical between 6th and 7th. I would imagine that it is a firmware limitation (which lives on disk?).

Has anyone restored an iPod 7th with a capacity of more than 127G and then connected that drive to a 6th gen to see if it can run higher firmware versions than iTunes will allow it to?

I tried this last night and got the same basic results as what I posted at the beginning of this topic, except that instead of having two partitions that utilize the full capacity of the 256GB of storage I now have a single partition that utilizes all of that storage.  Here are the basic stats:

I installed an iFlash-Quad with one 256GB microSD into a thin 160GB 7th Gen Classic, restored/reformatted with iTunes in Windows 10 (iPod OF v2.0.4), and installed the Rockbox current dev build.  Then I moved the iFlash-Quad into an 80GB 6th Gen iPod Classic "Original".  [Edit:  the 6th Gen had previously been restored/reformatted with iTunes in Windows 10 and Rockbox.]

I booted into the OF and got "Use iTunes to Restore" - when I connected to my Mac the OF went into Disk Mode and the Mac Finder's Get Info showed storage capacity of 137.11 GB.  Then I used Disk Mode to copy some files onto the iPod.  I subsequently found that no corruption of disk format or contents seems to have occurred.  Same with rebooting directly into Disk Mode, and also into Diagnostic Mode.  But the OF's DAP functionality is inaccessible, as it was with my prior experiment with two partitions.

I booted into Rockbox, and its System Info showed a single partition with 238GB storage capacity - when I connected to my Mac the Finder's Get Info showed 256.03 GB.

I booted into Rockbox Bootloader USB Mode and loaded my 135GB music library plus config/data/etc files from my Mac onto the iPod.  Then I had Rockbox build its database - all seems solid and fully functional, at least so far.

Obviously, having to restore/reformat the storage in one iPod and then move it into another is a PITA, but I have some thoughts about other possible ways to achieve the same end result without having to move hardware.  I hope to post more about that soon - probably under a new topic in this same Hardware section of the Forum.

[RetiredTeacherGuy]

Once again, I'm just musing (and should probably stop doing so...):

I'm guessing that the OF trips as soon as it sees that the MBR indicates a main partition greater than 128GB and/or the presence of any additional partitions beyond the 128GB limit.

Another interesting experiment - for knowledge sake only - would be to try formatting the 6th Gen with just one undersized partition and see how the OF reacts [edit: I'm guess the OF would be fine with that - it would be the same as installing an SD that is smaller than 128GB] .  If the OF is cool with that, then try formatting with two partitions that together stay within the LBA28 limit and see what the OF makes of that.  Again, just for knowledge sake, and as David Byrne sang, "I ain't got time for that now..." (though I increasingly desperately want to do the experiments).

My 6th gen uses all of a 256 SD. It took several steps (with the help of chatGPT) that I probably couldn’t replicate if you paid me, but I was able to remove the second partition and Rockbox sees the full 256 partition.

[Frankenpod]

Once again, I'm just musing (and should probably stop doing so...):

I'm guessing that the OF trips as soon as it sees that the MBR indicates a main partition greater than 128GB and/or the presence of any additional partitions beyond the 128GB limit.

Another interesting experiment - for knowledge sake only - would be to try formatting the 6th Gen with just one undersized partition and see how the OF reacts [edit: I'm guess the OF would be fine with that - it would be the same as installing an SD that is smaller than 128GB] .  If the OF is cool with that, then try formatting with two partitions that together stay within the LBA28 limit and see what the OF makes of that.  Again, just for knowledge sake, and as David Byrne sang, "I ain't got time for that now..." (though I increasingly desperately want to do the experiments).

My 6th gen uses all of a 256 SD. It took several steps (with the help of chatGPT) that I probably couldn’t replicate if you paid me, but I was able to remove the second partition and Rockbox sees the full 256 partition.

The crucial question is, though, does it corrupt if you ever (unintentionally) boot it into the original firmware?  Or have you managed to disable dual-booting?  If the answer to the first question is "no" or (more likely) the answer to the second is "yes", it would be interesting to know how you achieved that.

[Frankenpod]

I'll join in for some musing.

Following the iPodWiki firmware page here: https://ipodwiki.com/wiki/Firmware

It shows that the iPod classic (6th generation) can take firmware up to 1.1.2.

However the iPod classic (7th generation) can take firmware up to version 2.0.5.

(Rockbox does not make a distinction between 6th and 7th generation and considers them all 6g.)

I've always wondered where the 127G limit comes from on the 6th generation classic. AFAIK the hardware is almost identical between 6th and 7th. I would imagine that it is a firmware limitation (which lives on disk?).

Has anyone restored an iPod 7th with a capacity of more than 127G and then connected that drive to a 6th gen to see if it can run higher firmware versions than iTunes will allow it to?

I tried this last night and got the same basic results as what I posted at the beginning of this topic, except that instead of having two partitions that utilize the full capacity of the 256GB of storage I now have a single partition that utilizes all of that storage.  Here are the basic stats:

I installed an iFlash-Quad with one 256GB microSD into a thin 160GB 7th Gen Classic, restored/reformatted with iTunes in Windows 10 (iPod OF v2.0.4), and installed the Rockbox current dev build.  Then I moved the iFlash-Quad into an 80GB 6th Gen iPod Classic "Original".  [Edit:  the 6th Gen had previously been restored/reformatted with iTunes in Windows 10 and Rockbox.]

I booted into the OF and got "Use iTunes to Restore" - when I connected to my Mac the OF went into Disk Mode and the Mac Finder's Get Info showed storage capacity of 137.11 GB.  Then I used Disk Mode to copy some files onto the iPod.  I subsequently found that no corruption of disk format or contents seems to have occurred.  Same with rebooting directly into Disk Mode, and also into Diagnostic Mode.  But the OF's DAP functionality is inaccessible, as it was with my prior experiment with two partitions.

I booted into Rockbox, and its System Info showed a single partition with 238GB storage capacity - when I connected to my Mac the Finder's Get Info showed 256.03 GB.

I booted into Rockbox Bootloader USB Mode and loaded my 135GB music library plus config/data/etc files from my Mac onto the iPod.  Then I had Rockbox build its database - all seems solid and fully functional, at least so far.

Obviously, having to restore/reformat the storage in one iPod and then move it into another is a PITA, but I have some thoughts about other possible ways to achieve the same end result without having to move hardware.  I hope to post more about that soon - probably under a new topic in this same Hardware section of the Forum.

Did this "MacGyvered" fix function long-term?

Think I'm going to give this a go myself, soon.  As I have a bunch of left-over micro SD cards that need a home (2TB worth, in fact), but no more 7.5gen logic boards left to use them with.

  I have a few 6th gens, so once I get another iFlash quad, will try this trick.  Will take a while though.
(Might also try the two-partition thing, see if it's possible to make the primary partition very small, like just large enough for Rockbox itself)

[iPodVT]

Has anyone restored an iPod 7th with a capacity of more than 127G and then connected that drive to a 6th gen to see if it can run higher firmware versions than iTunes will allow it to?

I tried this last night and got the same basic results as what I posted at the beginning of this topic, except that instead of having two partitions that utilize the full capacity of the 256GB of storage I now have a single partition that utilizes all of that storage.

Did this "MacGyvered" fix function long-term?

Think I'm going to give this a go myself, soon.  As I have a bunch of left-over micro SD cards that need a home (2TB worth, in fact), but no more 7.5gen logic boards left to use them with.

  I have a few 6th gens, so once I get another iFlash quad, will try this trick.  Will take a while though.
(Might also try the two-partition thing, see if it's possible to make the primary partition very small, like just large enough for Rockbox itself)

At some point shortly after initially trying that "MacGyvered" hack I abandoned it and reverted that iPod 6th Gen back to my usual two volume scheme.  I can't seem to find any notes as to why I abandoned it, but I do recall that file transfers were extremely slow, though that could have been caused by other factors.  I don't recall experiencing any corruption or other functional issues while it was "MacGyvered".   I guess I just felt more secure sticking with my 'standard' two volume scheme as I've never been aware of any corruption or functional issues at all with that.  I don't know how I neglected to keep notes and post about it on the forum, and I regret that.

At some point I also tried formatting a 6th Gen with a smaller (~48GB) first partition and a second partition that filled the rest of the 256GB microSD.  Again, I don't seem to have kept any notes re that, but I recall that it somehow seemed unstable so I quickly abandoned that 'solution' as well.  I think the Apple OF gets offended when its partition gets resized out from under it.

But..., did you see the following post on reddit?  https://www.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/1kxobgj/ipod_classic_60th_gen_running_205_with_a_256gb/

If that pans out it will make all of these 6th Gen workarounds unnecessary.

[rockbox_dev123]

Thanks to OlsroFR it is now possible to use >127G on 6th gen iPods!

See here for details.

[Frankenpod]

I seem to have a 6G working with 1.5TB, though don't quite understand how it happened.  (I didn't restore it with iTunes at all, because iTunes refused to 'see' it).

As in final post in this thread - the significant point is that accidentally booting in OF mode doesn't seem to corrupt anything (and I don't quite understand why not).

  I guess it's fixes to RB that means synching in RB bootloader mode works without causing corruption (as I remember it, that used to be very unreliable, hence you needed OF mode to synch), but what I don't understand is why for this ipod it doesn't mess things up to boot in OF mode (though it does boot with a blank display in that mode).

https://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,55392.0.html