Questions About iPod Accessories on iPod Classic/6G

[WilsontheWolf]

Hello, I recently found a good deal on an iPod 6G (160GB) and installed Rockbox on it. It has been working lovely so far, but one thing I noticed is that I can't use Rockbox with my iPod. I'm not entirely sure if this iPod has IAP support, as https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodClassicPort doesn't mention anything about the support (it does mention "Nearly all of Rockbox's features work and battery life is extremely good.") but https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodAccessories.html doesn't mention it. If it doesn't support my iPod, what would be needed to get it to work, and if it does support it, is there anything I could do to get it to pick up in my car?

Thank You in advance

[philden]

Can you clarify what you are trying to do that doesn't work?

[iPodVT]

I have a 120GB 6.5 Gen iPod Classic (MB565LL/A) with a fairly recent Rockbox dev build installed.  With it booted into Rockbox, I mounted it on the 30 pin dock of a Sony ICF-CS10iP FM/AM Clock Radio and it is responding to the Play/Pause, |<<, and >>| buttons on the clock radio's remote control but not the Menu button, Enter/Select button, or other navigation buttons.  Then I tried the same with an 80GB 6th Gen iPod Classic (MB029LL/A) and a 160GB 7th Gen iPod Classic (MC297LL/A) and got the same results.  So it seems there is partial but consistent IAP support in Rockbox with those Classic models.

I figured I should try the same with each of them booted into their Apple firmware, and all three iPods froze up when I tried to do a normal shutdown out of Rockbox.  So I did a hard reset/reboot into the Apple firmware on each iPod, and then tried them all on the clock radio's dock.  This time they all responded to all of the buttons on the remote control.

Despite this, when it comes to using my iPods for listening to music, I am 100% into Rockbox.  This was the first time in ages that I ran an iPod in the Apple firmware rather than Rockbox for anything other than sync-ing and other music library management tasks.

[speachy]

I think they want to use it with their car.

Two problems present for this:

1) IAP-over-USB isn't implemented.  This includes both the control protocol and the audio path (which is a variation of USB audio IIRC)
2) Apple has been _extremely_ litigious over non-aple folks implemeting IAP without a license.

[speachy]

I have a 120GB 6.5 Gen iPod Classic (MB565LL/A) with a fairly recent Rockbox dev build installed.  With it booted into Rockbox, I mounted it on the 30 pin dock of a Sony ICF-CS10iP FM/AM Clock Radio and it is responding to the Play/Pause, |<<, and >>| buttons on the clock radio's remote control but not the Menu button, Enter/Select button, or other navigation buttons.  Then I tried the same with an 80GB 6th Gen iPod Classic (MB029LL/A) and a 160GB 7th Gen iPod Classic (MC297LL/A) and got the same results.  So it seems there is partial but consistent IAP support in Rockbox with those Classic models.

Hmm, our implementation of the classic serial IAP only specifies playback controls.  Adding the menu/select and up/down buttons to that is straightforward but it could have quite an affect on the various keymaps.

I hacked that together this morning, the patch is here:   https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/5355

I can do a test build for you if you'd like, but it's going to have to wait until (much) later today.

[iPodVT]

Thanks very much, but I was only stating my experience as an FYI in reference to the OP's situation.  99.999% of my iPod usage is wired and handheld.  It would be nice to have enhanced/expanded use of the remote control, and I will be happy to try a test build and report back, but it's not so important to me that I would consider it worthy of creating keymap conflicts for other users and other devices.

[speachy]

Thanks very much, but I was only stating my experience as an FYI in reference to the OP's situation.  99.999% of my iPod usage is wired and handheld.  It would be nice to have enhanced/expanded use of the remote control, and I will be happy to try a test build and report back, but it's not so important to me that I would consider it worthy of creating keymap conflicts for other users and other devices.

Nah, this isn't going to cause a keymap conflict for anyone; this is adding new maps for the previously unknown-to-rockbox keys.

(For the most part, Apple's IAP remote button mapping is function-oriented, eg it has different "buttons" for (eg) skipping a track vs skipping an album vs skipping a chapter vs fast-forwarding, so it's a _lot_ more featureful than the base ipod can be)

You can snag a test bulld here:  https://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-ipod6g-iaptest.zip

(I recommend you back up your .rockbox dir if you're not already running a very recent daily build.  This is basially git master plus several other experimental patches in my work tree..)

[iPodVT]

You can snag a test bulld here:  https://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-ipod6g-iaptest.zip

Thanks.  I'll try it later today.  Can I get some ~IPA to go with that ~pizza?

[iPodVT]

You can snag a test bulld here:  https://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-ipod6g-iaptest.zip

I must be doing something wrong.  I booted my iPod into the Apple firmware, backed up the .rockbox directory, deleted the original, copied the .zip to my iPod's root directory, unzipped, and then tried to reboot into Rockbox.  But the iPod won't boot beyond the intitial splash screen showing "Ver. 57680be1f4-231001".

Rather than me manually installing it, can Rockbox Utility install these test builds?  I don't find any instructions to do so and, in fact, read "How can I install my own build using RockboxUtility?  You can't, and we're not planning to support doing so." on the Utility's FAQ page.

[rockbox_dev123]

I manually applied your patch to my fork and made a commit for this.

I just compiled a build for my 6g (I recovered the lost iPod!) and the Menu button does not do anything in the WPS. Neither do the UP/DOWN buttons on the remote navigate the File browser or main menu. I'll investigate if there is PEBKAC somehow, but I don't think I've missed anything!

FYI I'm using an Apple iPod Universal Dock (MA045G) and remote.

[speachy]

I just compiled a build for my 6g (I recovered the lost iPod!) and the Menu button does not do anything in the WPS. Neither do the UP/DOWN buttons on the remote navigate the File browser or main menu. I'll investigate if there is PEBKAC somehow, but I don't think I've missed anything!

There are two different remote protocols (mode 2 and mode 4) I added these things to mode 2, but I suspect your remote uses mode 4.

Unfortunately none of the public specs on mode 4 seem to mention anything more than the basic playback controls, so...  it might take some custom debug code to record what your remote is doing.

[rockbox_dev123]

There are two different remote protocols (mode 2 and mode 4) I added these things to mode 2, but I suspect your remote uses mode 4.

Unfortunately none of the public specs on mode 4 seem to mention anything more than the basic playback controls, so...  it might take some custom debug code to record what your remote is doing.

I should clarify. I'm using remote A1156 and the Play/Pause/Select, and skip left and skip right buttons were already working (the volume up+down buttons work to increase the volume but I suspect this may bypass the iPod).

If you could give me any pointers on how I can dump the received control codes in a debug build I will happily try and capture the commands that the iPod receives!

[WilsontheWolf]

I think they want to use it with their car.

Two problems present for this:

1) IAP-over-USB isn't implemented.  This includes both the control protocol and the audio path (which is a variation of USB audio IIRC)
2) Apple has been _extremely_ litigious over non-aple folks implemeting IAP without a license.

Yes this is correct. That makes sense, thanks for the clarification. I'll have to see if I can get the AUX port working on my radio then.

[rockbox_dev123]

There are two different remote protocols (mode 2 and mode 4) I added these things to mode 2, but I suspect your remote uses mode 4.

Unfortunately none of the public specs on mode 4 seem to mention anything more than the basic playback controls, so...  it might take some custom debug code to record what your remote is doing.

I should clarify. I'm using remote A1156 and the Play/Pause/Select, and skip left and skip right buttons were already working (the volume up+down buttons work to increase the volume but I suspect this may bypass the iPod).

If you could give me any pointers on how I can dump the received control codes in a debug build I will happily try and capture the commands that the iPod receives!

I've noticed that on the iPod Video, unlike the ipod6g, the "View I/O ports" debug menu prints IAP codes in hex format.

Are these likely to be of any use?

On my Apple iPod Universal Dock (MA045G), with an aluminum (2009) Apple remote I was able to capture:

00 06 03 0e 04 00 d1 01 Up/Volume up.
00 06 03 0e 04 00 c6 01 Down/Volume down.
00 04 02 00 10 00 00 00 Left.
00 04 02 00 08 00 00 00 Right.
00 04 02 00 01 00 00 00 Select (centre).
00 04 02 00 01 00 00 00 Play/Pause (bottom right).

Strangely, the Menu button (bottom left on aluminium, bottom center on plastic) doesn't register a code with either remote type.

[philden]

Apparently the menu button does not work with the Universal Dock:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1422729?sortBy=rank