Discussion about the future use of the Record button

[Rincewind]

I would like to start a discussion about the future use of the record button on Hxx series.

At the moment the button does nothing in WPS, nothing in File Tree and nothing in menus. There are some patches around that use the record button to view the sncviewer, to access album art, queue songs etc...
I wrote a patch ("Record button configuration") that enables you to choose what the record button does via a settings menu entry.

I heard that some people think that the record button shouldn't be configurable by the user and that it should have a purpose that has to be agreed on.

My opinion is, that customization is a good thing that sets rockbox apart from other firmwares (WPS!). There are so many ideas from users how this additional button that iriver gave us should be used that I think that most users are happy if we give them some actions to choose from.

I would like to hear ideas and suggestions especially from developers.
If a solution can be found in this thread, then I won't argue about my patch again  .

[Llorean]

The way I see it, Record is NOT an extra button. 'Extra' describes buttons like the F1 - F3 soft buttons on the Archos devices. And even those have hard-coded functions in Rockbox, the quick menus.

[XavierGr]

We have to decide on the usability of buttons.
I don't like keys that do nothing, IMHO it is a waste.

On the other hand configurable buttons is a big story, that needs adrressing in many aspects of Rockbox. I can't say, though, that I am against it or with it.

As I said earlier in a previous thread, I think that keymaps must be discussed from scratch. Too many buttons, so many functions. So we need to talk about it.

[Llorean]

I think that if there is *any* configurability, it should be very, very limited. Like, perhaps for Record, short-press is Record and Long-press is FM, but those can be swapped. For people who will never use their device for recording. But even that seems unnecessary, since a long press isn't particularly harder than a short.

[Mikerman]

This one seems easy to me:  quick press, A-B (the current process is too cumbersome); long press, record.  Or, with a configurable option.

[Llorean]

Changing A-B to one button removes functionality though.

[Mikerman]

But couldn't a quick press call it up and set the A point, and a second press set the B point, thereby setting the loop easily? I think that's the major functionality, and the ease of use would seem to make up for anything else. 

In the alternative, a quick press could call up an A-B screen where quick presses could set the A-B points, but other functionality could also exist.

Of the 2, I would prefer the former, as A-B looping typically is an immediate thing, and I can't think of other functionality that is needed enough to override that.  But perhaps others can. 

[Llorean]

The fact is though with our current means you can change a B point multiple times without ever re-setting the A (or vice versa) and you lose that with a one-button method.

[Mikerman]

Well, I guess that could be done with the second approach in my post (my reason for offering it).  I guess I wonder, however:  do people use that (that is, a movable A and B point), and much?  I just can't think of how or how much, such that the former approach with its immediate availability (how I think A-B looping typically is used) seems more useful to me.

If moveable A and B points are important and the former approach is the preferred option, I guess a key option could come into play to preserve it--e.g. if the A-B loop is set, play+left/right moves the A-B points.

Another nice thing with the former approach, for those wanting the backlight option above:  matters conceivably could be set so that if a second tap for the B point is not made within x amount of tme, the A-B option simply is cancelled.

[Llorean]

People have written *just* to thank us for allowing the movement of one point instead of requiring both. So yes, people do appreciate it.

That being said, if you popped up a screen, then it becomes *more* complicated to use than the current method which is just a button combo.

And I do believe play+left/right only sets A-B while that mode is set. Are you saying you can set the loop points when not in A-B repeat mode right now?

[Mikerman]

No, I was suggesting the latter point for a revised system, as I had suggested as possibilities.

A REC button system (either one), IMHO, is easier than the current system, in which one has to already have selected the A-B loop option and then has to use a cumbersome 2-button/2-hand press (not easily done in a car, for example).  Again, it seems to me that much A-B use is at the moment, making a one-handed REC button system advantageous.  And if movable A/B points could be added to that as I suggested (that is, if the loop is set, play +left/right moves the A-B points), everyone is covered!

And great to hear that people like the movable A/B points!

[Rincewind]

just the few posts in this thread up to now prove, that everybody has a different view on what the record button should do.

btw, my favorite for a fixed action is short press goes playlist viewer, long press rec screen.

I don't think we give the user too much power (or too much complexity) if we give them a few well considered options to choose from with resonable defaults set.

A complete rework of the button code with keymaps would be the best in terms of extentability, but up to then something along the lines of my patch is a nice thing to have imho. And it doesen't change much code, so it is easy to remove and replace with something better in the far future.

[Rincewind]

*push*

any comments, suggestions or conclusions from main devs (or others)?

If "view current playlist" and "recording screen" are accepted by the people who have to agree on new features, I would do a patch that does this.
If custumization is wanted (like the poll suggests), I am more than happy to update my record config patch to current cvs and simplify it a bit.

[Llorean]

I would suggest creating a simple "View Current Playlist" on light tought, and "Recording Screen" on hold (yes, I've come to your way of thinking on that) and post it to the tracker, and then post a new thread for the discussion of customizing the light-touch possibilities.

I personally am in favor of limited customization of what it can do (Maybe 2 or 3 choices. A shortcut to FM screen, or Playlist View, or maybe a third option, and that's it, kinda thing.)

[Mikerman]

I also like (as I posted elsewhere) the idea of a button that one could customize, at least to a degree--it just seems to reflect part of the spirit of Rockbox (and also meets expressed desires to a degree).