Troubleshooting "from all angles" - iPod Classic 6g with microSD cards

[GreyBeast]

Hi everybody!

So far, I've spent three full days trying to get my device running, but at least I'm learning stuff on the way

It's an original iPod Classic 6g bought off eBay, with 160GB HD, changed (by me) to an iFlash Quad card with 4x128gb microSD memory cards.

Running the iPod in diagnostic mode to check the disk and memory (both the original HD and the microSD cards), I get all tests passed.

Resizing (up from the 6g's native limit of 127gb) and formatting the partition to FAT32 occurs without a glitch. The iPod is recognized in Windows Explorer as expected, showing the correct disk capacity, etc.

Running chkdsk /F /R returns no errors on the hard drive.

I can get the bootloader installed, and I can install Rockbox. I can transfer music onto the iPod, and I can play it.

Basically, I can do everything with it, EXCEPT:

- sometimes, while transferring music onto the iPod, file transfer slows down for between 5 and 30 seconds, only to resume again, though sometimes it just hangs completely. In these cases, although the iPod screen shows the "USB Keypad Mode: Multimedia" image, when I (correctly) unplug the iPod, a white screen appears with a "*PANIC* Failed to boot...." text. This happens regardless of the number of files I transfer, so it has nothing to do with the iPod (or Rockbox) not being able to take on so much new data in one go.

- on other occasions, while playing music, the music stops and the iPod shuts down. Battery power is sufficient, so that shouldn't be the cause. Upon reboot, the device reaches the Rockbox welcome screen (black background with the yellow Rockbox logo much like the one at the top of this page), but instead of moving onto the "Home Menu", stays locked on that screen forever. Any number of reboots yield the same result, forcing me to restore the iPod using iTunes.


CONCLUSION:
- It doesn't seem to be the Bootloader that's malfunctioning, otherwise Rockbox wouldn't even start up, correct?

- It doesn't seem to be Rockbox, either, since Rockbox gets correctly installed, runs and works fine.

- I'm currently running a thorough check on the microSD cards with a program called H2testw.exe, which specializes on SC cards, supposedly. It's been reading and writing onto the SD cards for a little under three hours now, and should run, as it says, for another 18.

If this test comes up with no errors, WHERE could the fault be?

If I get the iPod running with Rockbox again, I have decided NEVER to initialize the Database, or use it for anything, for that matter. I have a hunch the iPod hangs on file transfer, because automatic database updates may have been happening at the same time, causing some type of "overflow" or clogged RAM, or something.

The only other reason I can come up with, based on my humble PC skills is that I read somewhere on these forums that the partition needs to be formatted with a cluster size of 512bytes. Although I spent some time researching this topic, I couldn't find any software that allows me to actually format my drive to that particular cluster size. The general consensus seems to be, that the hardware itself tells the formatting software what cluster size (or possible other cluster sizes) it must be formatted to.

I'd appreciate any kind of input on the subject. I hope I've specified all the needed information.

[Frankenpod]

Just use the OF mode for transferring files.  Unless there's a hardware fault that should probably fix the problem.

[saratoga]

Those adapters rarely work well with rockbox, and people frequently report problems like you are describing.

[GreyBeast]

@ Frankenpod:

Sounds like a good idea, but what's the difference between plain copying files onto the iPod and doing the same, but while it's in Apple Disk Mode?
I'd prefer having just Rockbox on the iPod (single boot). Mainly because iTunes can only address 127gb on an iPod Classic 6g, and I have way more.
Wouldn't trying to set up a dual boot (under these circumstances) open a whole new can of worms?

@ saratoga:

Yep, it's staring to look a lot like it. The 21-hour thorough disk check shows no errors, although it's now veryfing results for another 6 hours, so maybe errors show up when it's finished.

Why is it, though, that Rockbox has problems with adapters such as this? How does it even know it's not a spinning disk, but rather microSD's? And why should it bother WHAT's connected to that end of the logic board, as long as it's formatted to Rockbox requirements and provides storage capacity?

[Frankenpod]

If it's a 'thick' 160gb classic, then, yes, there's no good solution if you want >128gb.  Dual boot works for the slim 160gb.  Thick 160gb classic is not best choice for larger flash drives.

[GreyBeast]

Wow, OK! It IS a "thick" iPod Classic 6g.

1. What's the "magic" difference between "thick" and "slim" that makes the slim version accept dual boot? Is it a newer version logic board?

2. If so, IF I replaced logic boards, making my iPod a de facto "slim" one, would being able to dual boot solve file transfer hiccups (if using Apple Disk mode to do so), or not?

Thanks for your input, by the way, it's extremely useful

[saratoga]

Ata driver probably needs to be updated to setup those SD adapters differently. That or maybe they expect the driver to behave exactly like the apple one and don't work correctly otherwise.

[GreyBeast]

Is this something I could do myself? I've learned how to re-flash the original Apple firmware using this manual:

https://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/Restore_iPod_without_iTunes

I'm guessing updating ATA drivers on the iPod is a similar procedure? I'll go investigate in the meantime.

***EDIT***
Never mind, I think you meant the ATA drivers would have to be updated in the bootloader or Rockbox. I couldn't find anything about it on the internet.

But, still, do you know if "thick/slim" is a function of what logic board is in the iPod? And, if so, would updating the logic board (i.e. making it a "slim" version) solve the problem?

[saratoga]

All iPods can dual boot, but not all devices support more than 128GB disks in the apple firmware, so if you put more than 128GB storage only some devices will work with it in the apple firmware.

[GreyBeast]

Exactly! That's why I prefer NOT to use dual boot, because I want to use more than just 128gb.

I'm assuming that if I set up the iPod with iTunes (= 1 partition of 128gb + "empty" partition), I won't be able to - later on - resize the partition, because then iTunes won't recognize the drive, and using Apple Disk Mode to transfer files onto the iPod won't work anymore, correct?

Does anyone else know if the difference between "slim" and "thick" versions of iPod Classic 6g lies in the type of logic board it has? I've found out the 6g has (at least) two logic boards available.

a) 820-2168-A
b) 820-2437-A

I'm kinda hoping the latter is an "upgrade/update" to the first one, and capable of dual booting and holding more than 128gb capacity.

Coincidentally, the logic board listed for the 7th gen iPod Classic has the same serial number (820-2437-A). Could that imply that it IS an upgrade of the other one, and that I COULD use it in my iPod to address more than 128gb of storage?

The best page about iPod Classic specs I could find is www.everymac.com. Unfortunately, it doesn't answer my question about logic boards

[GreyBeast]

The extensive flash card test shows the cards are fine, which only confirms what you say. So, basically, having an iPod 6g "thick" means I either HAVE to limit myself to using only 128gb of storage, OR finding out if using the logic board that's also in the 7g (and is capable of >128gb capacity) could work in my iPod. I'm going to go out on a limb and buy that logic board, and will post the results when I'm done.

[GreyBeast]

Could it be that transferring the music files under Linux (as opposed to Windows) onto the rockboxed iPod (as if moving files onto an external USB drive) AND having THIS version of the bootloader https://files.freemyipod.org/~user890104/bootloader-ipodclassic.html installed makes for snag-free file transfers?

I'm in the midst of retrying putting music on the iPod, this time under Linux, and it's much smoother under Linux, it seems.

[sduck]

I have rockbox running flawlessly on 3 ipod videos (ver 5.5), all with iflash solo cards and 128gb cards in them. I switch the ipods into apple mode when transferring files, otherwise they're always in rockbox mode. So as far as I can tell the rockbox/iflash combo isn't the problem.

I've got a classic 6.6 here that I'm hoping to experiment with with the same hardware updates once all the parts get here. However it's the one I can't install the bootloader onto with the native hardware, so some work still needs to be done.

[Frankenpod]

The compatibility problems seem to be way less of a problem with (a) the video as opposed to the classic, and (b) using cards of 128gb or less (as opposed to 256gb or above).  Hence I'm not surprised you have not encountered problems with ipod videos using 128gb cards.  Never really had any issues with 128gb cards myself.

I presume that whatever issues there are, are still there, but that that set-up is far more forgiving of them (more tolerant of timing problems or something?) so one gets away with it.

[GreyBeast]

I have rockbox running flawlessly on 3 ipod videos (ver 5.5), all with iflash solo cards and 128gb cards in them. I switch the ipods into apple mode when transferring files, otherwise they're always in rockbox mode. So as far as I can tell the rockbox/iflash combo isn't the problem.

I've got a classic 6.6 here that I'm hoping to experiment with with the same hardware updates once all the parts get here. However it's the one I can't install the bootloader onto with the native hardware, so some work still needs to be done.

I don't know if I understood you correctly, but have you tried THIS to get the bootloader installed?:

https://files.freemyipod.org/~user890104/bootloader-ipodclassic.html

mks5lboot works really well on 6.x iPod Classics.