Clip Zip keeps erroring

[flickspot]

Ok, 1015088 had no issue playing through 45 minutes. The last link, 3f54101, does have the microSD problems.

Also, I think the hiss may be a result of updating firmware, unplugging the device, and following the prompt to restart. Or maybe it happens after resuming playback straight after unplugging the device from USB. In any case, it disappears upon rebooting the device a second time.

[saratoga]

That would make sense.  If you boot the new build without rebooting a lot of hardware isn't reset.  Usually its fine for moving to new builds, but it doesn't always work if you try to run older builds. 

[flickspot]

Ah right, fair enough then.

Will there be a dev build with the frequency scaling removed, but the "Improved stability and error handling for USB and SD" intact? I'm really interested in that particular feature.

[Mihail Zenkov]

Will there be a dev build with the frequency scaling removed, but the "Improved stability and error handling for USB and SD" intact? I'm really interested in that particular feature.

No But you can help to fix it.

saratoga: Can you provide build with previous CVDD2=0xF4 ?

[flickspot]

Sure, happy to do it

[saratoga]

http://web.mit.edu/mgg6/www/rockbox-clipzip-CVDD2=F4.7z

[saratoga]

Will there be a dev build with the frequency scaling removed, but the "Improved stability and error handling for USB and SD" intact? I'm really interested in that particular feature.

No But you can help to fix it.

saratoga: Can you provide build with previous CVDD2=0xF4 ?

If this fixes it do you want to go all the way back to 2.8v in SVN, or try 2.7 or 2.75?  Is there much savings?

[flickspot]

This works without issue

[saratoga]

Here is a slightly lower voltage:

http://web.mit.edu/mgg6/www/rockbox-clipzip-CVDD2=2.75v.7z

Does that also work ok?  Could you test for a long period of time (maybe run overnight hooked to a charger) to be sure?

[flickspot]

Yeah, I can do that. It's working well so far.

Out of curiosity, how many voltage steps are going to be tried if this keeps working? What were the values in the build that wasn't working, and what's the default?

Also, no big deal, but is there a way to disconnect the device from Windows without physically removing it?

[saratoga]

I don't think we'd go below 2.75V.  Previously the value was 2.65V, and in older builds it used to be 2.8V. 

I'm not sure about Windows, but in rockbox you'd have to physically disconnect the USB cable before it will leave MSC mode. 

[flickspot]

Alright, I'll report back in the morning.

By the way, I'm a novice in this area, but is it possible that a voltage tested on my device could be insufficient for another device? I'm thinking about this like you'd think about a CPU overclock. Could it become insufficient over time as the electronics in these devices degrade?

Edit: In fact, due to the above concerns, and also apparently because devices without microSDs need less voltage, would the dev team consider putting in a user-controlled undervolting feature in the firmware? This has kind of reminded me of how phones are getting these kinds of tools these days in the form of third-party apps for enthusiast users.

[Mihail Zenkov]

I don't think we'd go below 2.75V.  Previously the value was 2.65V, and in older builds it used to be 2.8V. 

If 2.75V will be ok, I think we should also try 2.7V. We should have CVDD2 low as possible as it has a great influence on battery time, especially on clip+.

By the way, I'm a novice in this area, but is it possible that a voltage tested on my device could be insufficient for another device? I'm thinking about this like you'd think about a CPU overclock.

We want find and set by default safe value for all users.

Could it become insufficient over time as the electronics in these devices degrade?

I don't think so. I use overclocked/underclocked devices for many years with same settings. If it become unstable - this is hardware issue and reverting to default setting not help much.

Edit: In fact, due to the above concerns, and also apparently because devices without microSDs need less voltage, would the dev team consider putting in a user-controlled undervolting feature in the firmware? This has kind of reminded me of how phones are getting these kinds of tools these days in the form of third-party apps for enthusiast users.

It is possible later when we are sure that everything is stable, I will try compare fine tuned voltage settings for individual player to settings by default and to understand is it makes sense.
If it have sense, we can switch voltage automatically when sd card inserted.

But now I think better spend time for software (codec/dsp) optimization: it improve battery time on all targets and can be quite considerable.

[flickspot]

Well, it's been ~11 hours, and everything seems stable. I'll test the 2.7V build when you upload it.

Regarding degradation, I think it's commonly accepted that electronics can become less efficient over many years due to degradation. Intel has acknowledged that higher voltages degrade electronics more quickly, implying there is some form of degradation over time even with a lower voltage. I don't know whether this manifests in less efficiency or something else, but the CPU overclocking community seems to think the former is the case.

[Mihail Zenkov]

You right, degradation electronics component can be more quickly if it used with higher voltage/current/frequency than recommended in datasheet. But as I mention before - if we have notable degradation in some electronics component reverting to default settings not option. If hardware broken it should be replaced/repaired.