random selection

[matthew1]

In addition to the existing shuffle option, I'd like to see a random selection option.  A random selection means any song from the playlist can be played next even ones that have already been played.  For small playlists shuffle might be preferred but for large playlists I'd prefer random.

[saratoga]

You can only shuffle items that are in the current playlist, so that would imply duplicating some playlist entries.  Could be done but it would be a little weird.

[matthew1]

No duplication of entries.  Let's say you have a playlist of 972 songs.  Each song is assigned a number from 1 to 972.  For the next song to be played you randomly select a number between 1 and 972 and play that song next.  If you go back a song the next song to be played would be different as it is randomly selected every time.  Other mp3 players do this.

[saratoga]

For the next song to be played you randomly select a number between 1 and 972 and play that song next.

You have to decide which track to play in advance so that it can be buffered.  So when you randomize, the order of the entire playlist will be fixed until you decide to randomize again.

[[Saint]]

This is a somewhat odd, but not uncommon request.

In the past, the consensus of opinion has been that in general people don't actually want true random playback, unless we also offered a weighting system. This is possible, but not implemented.

The reason I say people don't actually want true random, over pseudo-random, is that the former presented a situation where it is legitimately possible to play the exact same track as many times in a row as as the playlist is long. And these odds increase (or decrease) with the playlist length.

Our current system ensures that you will never, not ever, hear the same track in a shuffled playlist twice. To add true random playback, it becomes rather essential to have a weighting system so that users can increase or decrease the odds of hearing a specific track more than once. With true random playback, if the user shuffles an album into into the playlist, and then skips a track they might not particularly like, there is absolutely nothing stopping that track from being presented to the user as the next track in the playlist, again and again, for a value of N where N is the playlist length.

I think I should also point out that the user absolutely does not need to make a specific selection of a given track before starting a randomized playlist. The last response in this thread could seem to imply this, but this is not the case at all. If the user inserts a directory into a playlist, using the 'insert shuffled' option, this decision is made for the user, and it behave exactly as one would expect it to, randomization with zero repeat collisions.

I hope this post has gone some way to explaining the situation as it pertains to Rockbox and shuffled playback.


[Saint]

[matthew1]

When a track is playing you randomly select (only one) and buffer the next track.  Don't randomize the entire playlist at once.  If you want to weight the selection by rating as an additional option, that's fine but necessary to me.

I suggest having both options.  I'd use shuffle for small playlists and random (with or without weighting) for large playlists. 

The Sansa Fuze Sandisk firmware does random (not shuffle).  I have two mp3 players on my android phone and both do random (not shuffle).  I'm guessing its because its easier to implement than a true shuffle.

[[Saint]]

All this is very well and good, but we don't do feature requests at all, and what any original firmware does or does not do has zero impact on Rockbox.

If you want this, you'll either have to convince someone else to implement it (whom none of which have seen fit or necessary to do so in over a decade), or do it yourself. Its not entirely unlikely to enter upstream, but it is entirely unlikely to be implemented by any existing developer.


[Saint]

[saratoga]

When a track is playing you randomly select (only one) and buffer the next track.

Thats not going to be acceptable most likely since it would screw up hard drive players. 

[JdGordon]

Our current system ensures that you will never, not ever, hear the same track in a shuffled playlist twice.

except when the PRNG gods somehow decide to put the multiple copies of the same song (from different cds or live sets or whatever) right after eachother!

[matthew1]

When a track is playing you randomly select (only one) and buffer the next track.

Thats not going to be acceptable most likely since it would screw up hard drive players.

Are you thinking that the files in a playlist are somehow sequentially written on disk?  I don't see how it would be detrimental to a hard drive.

[matthew1]

Our current system ensures that you will never, not ever, hear the same track in a shuffled playlist twice.

except when the PRNG gods somehow decide to put the multiple copies of the same song (from different cds or live sets or whatever) right after eachother!

With a large playlist that has thousands of songs and might take weeks or months to get through, I would like the chance of hearing the same song again.  If you don't want that selecton at that particular moment you can hit next.  It has a chance of coming up again when you do want to hear it.