Rockbox Development > Feature Ideas

lrcplayer: ignored prefixes and suffixes in file names

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[Saint]:
I must say I have a very hard time believing that anyone does this often enough, or on a large enough scale, for it to actually be a real world problem, and that if the metadata was correct and consistent - it wouldn't be.

I'm not convinced that loosening the already very flexible naming and positioning requirements of lrcplayer is a valid solution for poorly or improperly tagged media.


[Saint]

GCRaistlin:
What makes this a real world problem isn't that at least one user does this often or on a large scale but that many users have to do this - maybe not often or not on a large scale, but anyway have to.
And it's not the question of correct metadata, because metadata has and will always have errors - in real life, yes. It's the question of how to decrease the trouble because of incorrect metadata.

[Saint]:

--- Quote from: GCRaistlin on January 05, 2015, 07:20:03 AM ---What makes this a real world problem isn't that at least one user does this often or on a large scale but that many users have to do this - maybe not often or not on a large scale, but anyway have to.

--- End quote ---

Where is it that you are getting this estimation of 'many users' from?

My count puts the amount of people who have ever seen this as an issue at precisely one, yourself.

It seems as though you are deliberately making this a lot harder than it needs to be, take the following as an example:

I would posit that in most instances, in your stated use case of replacing a given low bitrate/quality album with a given high bitrate/quality album, that they would simply cut/copy and paste over the top of the original, which would leave any user generated files such as lyrics, bookmarks, playlists, album art etc. in place.



--- Quote from: GCRaistlin on January 05, 2015, 07:20:03 AM ---And it's not the question of correct metadata, because metadata has and will always have errors - in real life, yes. It's the question of how to decrease the trouble because of incorrect metadata.

--- End quote ---

That's a bold statement. My metadata is certainly correct. I posit that this is the case for a great many of our user base.

I don't know from which questionable place(s) you're getting your media from, but the metadata being incorrect certainly isn't Rockbox's problem, and relaxing the rules for lyric file detection in turn creating the possibility of naming collision (for example, self titled albums of which some artists have multiple) is not something I think is a valid solution.

The operating system shouldn't be relaxed to accommodate users who, for lack of a more subtle way of putting it, are too lazy to correctly tag their media. As I stated in a prior post, I highly recommend MusicBrainz Picard for all metadata creation/editing/removal/etc. It is an extremely easy to use tool with a truly massive bank of information from which to draw from (utilizing AcoustID audio fingerprinting), with multiple detection options.

In this day and age, there's pretty much no good reason to not have correct and consistently tagged media regardless of where said media originated.


[Saint]

saratoga:

--- Quote from: GCRaistlin on January 05, 2015, 07:20:03 AM ---What makes this a real world problem isn't that at least one user does this often or on a large scale but that many users have to do this - maybe not often or not on a large scale, but anyway have to.

--- End quote ---

I think you're the first to mention it.  My impression is that very few people use lyrics. 

GCRaistlin:

--- Quote from: [Saint] on January 05, 2015, 04:21:43 PM ---Where is it that you are getting this estimation of 'many users' from?

--- End quote ---
That's simply. Do many users get their media collections from torrent trackers? Yes. Would many users like to update their media collections with higher quality ones if possible? Yes. Are there uploaders who doesn't take trouble to fill Lyrics tag? Yes. Does every uploader have his/her own opinion of the ideal torrent file structure? Yes.
Summarizing all of the above gives the answer: many users (of those who bother about the lyrics, of course) should work somehow with their lyrics collections after updating their media collections.


--- Quote from: [Saint] on January 05, 2015, 04:21:43 PM ---My count puts the amount of people who have ever seen this as an issue at precisely one, yourself.

--- End quote ---
I'm just the one who took trouble to give the idea how to resolve the issue :)


--- Quote from: [Saint] on January 05, 2015, 04:21:43 PM ---I would posit that in most instances, in your stated use case of replacing a given low bitrate/quality album with a given high bitrate/quality album, that they would simply cut/copy and paste over the top of the original, which would leave any user generated files such as lyrics, bookmarks, playlists, album art etc. in place.

--- End quote ---
Yes - provided that file names and directory structure are the same. Do I have to say that it's not very likely scenario in case of different uploaders?


--- Quote from: [Saint] on January 05, 2015, 04:21:43 PM ---That's a bold statement. My metadata is certainly correct. I posit that this is the case for a great many of our user base.

--- End quote ---
We're still saying about lyrics, aren't we? The main issue here is that's hard to say is lyrics correct or not. For example, lyrics printed in CD booklets is used to lack punctuation marks. In this case, what lyrics is correct - "official" without commas or "literate" with them? Who guarantees that you won't change your mind about this one day? Who guarantees that you won't find a typo in your metadata one day? The correct lyrics isn't a state, but a process.


--- Quote from: [Saint] on January 05, 2015, 04:21:43 PM ---relaxing the rules for lyric file detection in turn creating the possibility of naming collision (for example, self titled albums of which some artists have multiple) is not something I think is a valid solution.

--- End quote ---
I didn't understand how self-titled albums could lead us to collisions while lyrics is being searched by track name. I thought about possible collisions and even has the real example (2 "In The Flesh" tracks in Pink Floyd's "The Wall"), but this could easily be eliminated by the rule: "First search by full track name, if not found, try to ignore specified prefixes/suffixes".
And I don't agree with "relaxing" term - it's not relaxing, it's flexibility. By default all things should remain the same - ignored prefixes/suffixes should be defined (or enabled - in case of pre-defined) by the user.


--- Quote from: [Saint] on January 05, 2015, 04:21:43 PM ---As I stated in a prior post, I highly recommend MusicBrainz Picard for all metadata creation/editing/removal/etc.

--- End quote ---
I do know where to get the metadata. But I prefer not to change downloaded files. Why? Well, there is no reliable media. Backup is good, but it's much easier to backup corrected lyrics in txt files than a lot of music files the only difference of which from the original (downloaded) ones is corrected embedded metadata. We can consider torrent trackers as a kind of backup, can't we? If you use original torrent files and someday your HDD dies suddenly, all you have to do is to buy a new one and to download torrent again. But if there were changed files on that HDD you've got the problem. And anyway, even you have a backup, you have to process all files again in case of appearing the torrent with the higher quality files.

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