iPod Classic 6G 160GB (2007): Questions about patches - experimental mods

[X-Tech]

Hello,

i have some questions about Rockbox vs. iPod Classic. I manage to run Rockbox via emCORE on my iPod Classic 6G 160GB YMX model (2007). It seems that everything works fine. Music is for me crucial with iPod, of course. But i tried some plugins esp. some games and it was unable to run or at least it took very long time to boot the game (i didn t wait, i used restart combination).

I would like to know with what is on Rockbox incompactible and problematic with iPod Classic in comparison with iPod Video (5/5,5G) for examle and why? It is 7 years now from the time first iPod Classic model was released and there is not still available stable Rockbox version for Classic. Why, please?
Will be there someday full and stable Rockbox Utility for iPod Classic?

Anyway, i would like to ask about how to make my iPod even better. I read some article that some experimental mods for iPod Classic exist. Especially i found some nice experimental builds for Rockbox for iPod Classic 6G. I downloaded some build kit where i found those patches: crc.patch.20140326, ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326, utf8.patch.20140326. How do i install them? Can you describe me their functions a bit? Is there more such patches? Is there some detailed article about that?
 
Many thanks for your answers.
 
with regards
Alex

[__builtin]

But i tried some plugins esp. some games and it was unable to run or at least it took very long time to boot the game (i didn t wait, i used restart combination).

Hmm... that's strange. Usually it is because the disk is taking time to spin up, but that takes about 5 seconds at most. About how long did it take to start the game? (and what game?)

I would like to know with what is on Rockbox incompactible and problematic with iPod Classic in comparison with iPod Video (5/5,5G) for examle and why? It is 7 years now from the time first iPod Classic model was released and there is not still available stable Rockbox version for Classic. Why, please?
Will be there someday full and stable Rockbox Utility for iPod Classic?

From http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodClassicPort:

Rockbox generally works but we do not have dual boot support, recording, or support for apple accessories. The port is classified as "unusable" due to its complex install process and lack of a proper bootloader (we use the third-party Emcore instead). Aside from these limitations, the port is in an advanced state and has excellent battery life.

So, basically, it's just the install process that makes it "unusable." Other than that, it is very powerful hardware compared with earlier iPods and Rockbox runs perfectly, except for a (very) few hiccups (i.e. user timer not working).

Anyway, i would like to ask about how to make my iPod even better. I read some article that some experimental mods for iPod Classic exist. Especially i found some nice experimental builds for Rockbox for iPod Classic 6G. I downloaded some build kit where i found those patches: crc.patch.20140326, ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326, utf8.patch.20140326. How do i install them? Can you describe me their functions a bit? Is there more such patches? Is there some detailed article about that?
 
Many thanks for your answers.
 
with regards
Alex

Patches aren't used that much any more because Git is MUCH easier to use, so check this out: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DevelopmentGuide

[[Saint]]

Patches aren't used that much any more because Git is MUCH easier to use, so check this out: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DevelopmentGuide

...and what do you think Git runs off, genius?


[Saint]

[saratoga]

I would like to know with what is on Rockbox incompactible and problematic with iPod Classic in comparison with iPod Video (5/5,5G) for examle and why? It is 7 years now from the time first iPod Classic model was released and there is not still available stable Rockbox version for Classic. Why, please?

The 6G port started a few years ago but was never completely finished.

Will be there someday full and stable Rockbox Utility for iPod Classic?

If someone takes an interest in finishing it, sure.

Especially i found some nice experimental builds for Rockbox for iPod Classic 6G. I downloaded some build kit where i found those patches: crc.patch.20140326, ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326, utf8.patch.20140326. How do i install them? Can you describe me their functions a bit? Is there more such patches? Is there some detailed article about that?

If you downloaded a build, and there was a patch file, almost certainly it is included in the build. As for what they do, ask the people who wrote them.

[__builtin]

Patches aren't used that much any more because Git is MUCH easier to use, so check this out: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DevelopmentGuide

...and what do you think Git runs off, genius?


[Saint]

RAW patches aren't used anymore.

[saratoga]

We don't host them on the tracker, but they're still pretty widely used with git (and gerrit provides you with .patch file if you want it).

[X-Tech]

Hello,

thanks for your notes. I have some reactions and new questions.

a/ Rockbox is perfect, amazing piece of softwrae - no doubt! But what interferes me a bit is that iPod under Rockbox is not full functional (started) in just ONE second as with original Apple OS. This is famous feature for Apple devices. I have to say that this is gorgeous feature from Apple. I wish there is no boot, no waitting with Rockbox as well!

b/ speaking about performance. I did not use iPod with original firmware very long. But i have a feeling that under Rockbox disk activity is more busy. So is this just an illussion? I know that iPod under original FW from Apple use 60MB cache to preload content so the disk spin up less. How does it work with Rockbox, especially this management and feture, please?
I am not a specialist about that and maybe i am wrong but maybe it is beacuse Rockbox is recorded on hard disk, not in flash partition of iPod (probably this could be a reson why ONE second starting process is not possible).

c/ about patches. What did you mean with this "Git", please? I specifically asked about those patches:
- crc.patch.20140326
- ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326
- utf8.patch.20140326
I found them together with one experimental kit. They are built by aroldan and Cástor Muñoz.
I am HIGHLY interested in this patch: ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326 beacuse it deals with hard drive activity. Author claims that this patch lower disk activity! (http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening/1350). All is described here on this webpage in this very nice article (section 'Installation'): http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening.
The kit that contains those/this patch is also mentioned on this page through this link https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/MjELjmDNJ_. The exact kit with patches is here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/AAAIMuTOM4XZtvC6RK1mXz0Oa/rockbox-ipod6g-9cb9f76M-140326.zip?dl=0 (rockbox-ipod6g-9cb9f76M-140326.zip | 3.75 MB | 5 months ago)
I wrote to authors, yes (they are mentioned in 'Credits' on this head-fi article "iPod Classic - Rockbox: It is happening"), but no replies yet.
Well, do you have some experiences with those patches or at least with this power management patch?! How do i install them, and where? I have no clue how to install .patch files.

d/ i would like to back up my settings from my iPod. Where they are located in Rockbox?

e/ can i delete Themes from .rockbox folder on PC directly from a folder or do i need some special technique? I ask because there are .wps and .sbs files related to themes in different position of Settings keys (so there are not just .cfg files).

f/ about games. Well, it seems that most of them works, i guess those simple ones as "Rockblox" (anyway i can't check them all, there are too many of them). But i tried "Doom" game and it get stack on "Starting graphic engine". I did wait for two minutes and nothing happened, just black screen with this sentence. And no button is functional - it looks like freezed. I had to use hard restart (Menu+Select). So there is some bug i guess.
And speaking about games.. what i did like on original Apple FW was the game called "Vortex". Is available also for Rockbox?

g/ can i change boot image? Where to do it, please?

h/ about incompatibilities of Rockbox with Classic. Ok, i understand that "unstable" is equivalent "uncomfortable", right? It just means that user need to use a bit unconvenient way to run Rockbox with Classic. Am i right?
Boot support, recording, or support for apple accessories - they are the onliest incompactibilities with Classic, is that true?

Thanks for answers;)
XT

[saratoga]

I know that iPod under original FW from Apple use 60MB cache to preload content so the disk spin up less. How does it work with Rockbox, especially this management and feture, please?

Rockbox works the same way.

Well, do you have some experiences with those patches or at least with this power management patch?! How do i install them, and where? I have no clue how to install .patch files.

As I said before, if you downloaded them with a build, then they're already installed.  No one is going to put random source code in with a build.

d/ i would like to back up my settings from my iPod. Where they are located in Rockbox?

config.cfg in the .rockbox folder.

You can just delete themes you don't want from your PC file browser.

f/ about games. Well, it seems that most of them works, i guess those simple ones as "Rockblox" (anyway i can't check them all, there are too many of them). But i tried "Doom" game and it get stack on "Starting graphic engine". I did wait for two minutes and nothing happened, just black screen with this sentence. And no button is functional - it looks like freezed. I had to use hard restart (Menu+Select). So there is some bug i guess.

Yes this is a known issue.  The timer doom needs is not implemented on the 6G yet.

And speaking about games.. what i did like on original Apple FW was the game called "Vortex". Is available also for Rockbox?

No, just the games that are included with the build.

g/ can i change boot image? Where to do it, please?

You can download the source code and change any images you like.

h/ about incompatibilities of Rockbox with Classic. Ok, i understand that "unstable" is equivalent "uncomfortable", right?

Note that we consider the 6G "unusable", not "unstable", because its complex to install and various things do not work yet.  You can find more information about what devices are classified how and why on the front page of this website. 

[[Saint]]

...what interferes me a bit is that iPod under Rockbox is not full functional (started) in just ONE second as with original Apple OS. This is famous feature for Apple devices. I have to say that this is gorgeous feature from Apple. I wish there is no boot, no waitting with Rockbox as well!

Apple does this in a very tricky way that you probably haven't noticed.

Instead of actually powering the device down, like Rockbox does, they simply hibernate the device. When you see it "booting" so quickly, its because its not /actually/ booting at all, just waking from a suspended state.

However, the iPod *will* still power the device down if it is hibernated for a long period of time, and when it does, the boot time is very comparable to that of Rockbox. With Rockbox, we prefer the battery to be used for useful things, like playing audio, rather than keeping the device hibernated in order to save a very marginal amount (~1s) off the total boot time.

I feel I should also note that in terms of support and any issues you may have, you're largely on your own.
You're using a (truly ancient) modified build, of an unusable target. A target which we offer no supported means of installation for.


[Saint]

[X-Tech]

Thanks for reactions. Yes, i mismatched terms - i meant "unusable". This is something really different from "unstable"

Well, again, I have some more questions..

c/ i would like to know more about patches - technics how to install them separately. The point is that i installed typical build, not this experimental one! And as you can see inside of this experimental build patches are seperately - i guess they must be installed seperately: they are not involved inside of this builf. Check this rar: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/AAAIMuTOM4XZtvC6RK1mXz0Oa/rockbox-ipod6g-9cb9f76M-140326.zip?dl=0 - the patches are in separate folder. So my question is if i can install those patches separately for my build and HOW. I ask mainly about those patches:
- crc.patch.20140326
- ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326
- utf8.patch.20140326
Can you help, please?

e/ about deleting themes. If i delete .cfg files in "Themes" folder does it mean that other files (.wps and .sbs) related to themes in '.rockbox' root folder will disapear?
Is there some manager utility to maintain installed themes, fonts, languages, games and other plugins? I thought that this job will manage RockboxUtility but this programme is not managing these things. Is there something i can use for managing my iPod?

g/ how do i change boot image? Sorry, i have no clue how to make it with source code. How?

i/ i would like to ask also about settings of emCORE. Most of Settings i understand. Anyway i would like to understand more features involved in emCORE Tool menu. Is there some manual?
I am curios what is for "emCORE Console" and some emCORE Tools as "Run UMSboot", "Run Fallback image", "Clear Rockbox configuration", "Clear Rockbox database".

j/ ok, i respect that Rockbox goes with different way and shuts down iPod completely. There is something good about that instead of 'deep sleep' and one second start made by Apple. Thanks for your note about that. Anyway in emCORE Settings i found a choice "Fastboot action". I have it disabled. Well, what will happen if i choose 'Enabled'. Will i get 'deep sleep' boot mode?

k/ i would like to ask about update of Rockbox. Can i do it manually, can i easily copy new build over the existing one (i.e. '.rockbox' folder over '.rockbox' folder)?

l/ is there some way to move Rockbox ('.rockbox') to internal flash partition to boost the overall iPod performance?

m/ i noticed some problem with charge status. When i plug my iPod to PC via original cable to high power USB port iPod do not show anything. I thought it will show automated charging screen where i can check charging status. But nothing is shown. I do not even know if my iPod is under charging process. When i start iPod then it seems that is charged. Well, how about that? If i want to charge it i have to start up my iPod?
And i also did note that battery icon is not "giffed" as on every phone example. Is there any way to fix all these matters, please?

Thanks for reactions.
XT

[__builtin]

l/ is there some way to move Rockbox ('.rockbox') to internal flash partition to boost the overall iPod performance?

No. That's for the bootloader.

[[Saint]]

c/ i would like to know more about patches - technics how to install them separately.

See our wiki page on Working With Patches

<snip>...i installed typical build, not this experimental one! And as you can see inside of this experimental build patches are seperately - i guess they must be installed seperately: they are not involved inside of this builf. Check this rar: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/AAAIMuTOM4XZtvC6RK1mXz0Oa/rockbox-ipod6g-9cb9f76M-140326.zip?dl=0 - the patches are in separate folder. So my question is if i can install those patches separately for my build and HOW. I ask mainly about those patches:
- crc.patch.20140326
- ipod6g-powermgmt.patch.20140326
- utf8.patch.20140326
Can you help, please?

The version string in the build tells me very clearly that it is a modified build.

Code: [Select]

rockbox-ipod6g-9cb9f76M-140326.zip

Note the "M", after the 7 digit git version string (9cb9f76) tells us that the build is M(odified). If this were a clean, unedited binary, that M would not be present in the version string. I can't tell you which patches are included, but the build is definitely modified in some fashion.

e/ about deleting themes. If i delete .cfg files in "Themes" folder does it mean that other files (.wps and .sbs) related to themes in '.rockbox' root folder will disapear?
Is there some manager utility to maintain installed themes, fonts, languages, games and other plugins? I thought that this job will manage RockboxUtility but this programme is not managing these things. Is there something i can use for managing my iPod?

Our fine manual explains this adequately. The iPod Classic has no manual currently, due to its unusable target status, but you may refer to the iPod Video manual as the two targets are largely identical except for a few features present on the iPod Video that are not yet implemented on the iPod Classic (recording, USB HID, etc.).

The relevant manual section in this case is:

Code: [Select]

12.3.14. Theme Remove

g/ how do i change boot image? Sorry, i have no clue how to make it with source code. How?

You would need to change the file in the source tree and compile your own Rockbox binary.

i/ i would like to ask also about settings of emCORE. Most of Settings i understand. Anyway i would like to understand more features involved in emCORE Tool menu. Is there some manual?
I am curios what is for "emCORE Console" and some emCORE Tools as "Run UMSboot", "Run Fallback image", "Clear Rockbox configuration", "Clear Rockbox database".

The Freemyipod project, and in turn, emCORE, have absolutely nothing to do with Rockbox. The Rockbox project does not handle support for emCORE, and nor does the Freemyipod project supply support for Rockbox. Questions of this nature should be directed to the Freemyipod project.

j/ ok, i respect that Rockbox goes with different way and shuts down iPod completely. There is something good about that instead of 'deep sleep' and one second start made by Apple. Thanks for your note about that. Anyway in emCORE Settings i found a choice "Fastboot action". I have it disabled. Well, what will happen if i choose 'Enabled'. Will i get 'deep sleep' boot mode?

No.

The fastboot setting governs what the iPod will boot into without requiring user interaction, allowing the user to bypass the emCORE main menu and boot directly into Rockbox, the emCORE console, UMSboot, etc. If one were to select Rockbox here, they would find the boot time to be markedly reduced by way of bypassing the emCORE main menu.

k/ i would like to ask about update of Rockbox. Can i do it manually, can i easily copy new build over the existing one (i.e. '.rockbox' folder over '.rockbox' folder)?

Yes.

This link will always point to the most recent Rockbox binary produced by the Rockbox build system. You may simply download this file and extract it to the root of the iPod storage, allowing it to overwrite any and all files. After safely ejecting and disconnecting the device from USB, Rockbox will detect that the main binary has changed and prompt you to perform a soft reboot.

l/ is there some way to move Rockbox ('.rockbox') to internal flash partition to boost the overall iPod performance?

No.

m/ i noticed some problem with charge status. When i plug my iPod to PC via original cable to high power USB port iPod do not show anything. I thought it will show automated charging screen where i can check charging status. But nothing is shown. I do not even know if my iPod is under charging process. When i start iPod then it seems that is charged. Well, how about that? If i want to charge it i have to start up my iPod?

This device port is still in its infancy. There is a great many minor issues with it. There is a gerrit instance that enables proper charge detection for the iPod Classic devices pending review and commit currently.

I have no idea if I am parsing your question correctly. The device will charge, albeit very slowly (at a rate of 100mA), when powered down completely, but if my memory serves me correctly it will only do this if the current charge level is below 90%, and in turn it will only charge the device to around 90% of its capacity. This is a feature of the hardware, and neither Rockbox nor emCORE governs this behaviour.

And i also did note that battery icon is not "giffed" as on every phone example. Is there any way to fix all these matters, please?

This depends entirely on the theme. Animated battery meters are absolutely possible, but its up to the theme author to implement this. Currently, it wouldn't be a lot of use for the Classic anyway, as proper charge detection (the only case I can image an animated battery icon being used) isn't currently implemented on this device.


[Saint]

[__builtin]

f/ about games. Well, it seems that most of them works, i guess those simple ones as "Rockblox" (anyway i can't check them all, there are too many of them). But i tried "Doom" game and it get stack on "Starting graphic engine". I did wait for two minutes and nothing happened, just black screen with this sentence. And no button is functional - it looks like freezed. I had to use hard restart (Menu+Select). So there is some bug i guess.

Yes this is a known issue.  The timer doom needs is not implemented on the 6G yet.

Apparently the hardware timer that the user timer uses doesn't physically exist on the chip, so that's why it doesn't work.

If you REALLY want to play DOOM, there is a workaround in Gerrit that uses the Rockbox timer (much less precise, but working): http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/912

And trust me... Rockblox is not a "simple" game...

[saratoga]

The point is that i installed typical build, not this experimental one! And as you can see inside of this experimental build patches are seperately - i guess they must be installed seperately: they are not involved inside of this builf. Check this rar: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/AAAIMuTOM4XZtvC6RK1mXz0Oa/rockbox-ipod6g-9cb9f76M-140326.zip?dl=0 - the patches are in separate folder.

haha ok if you think you know better than us feel free to ignore the answers you get in this thread. 

[X-Tech]

p.s.: to saratoga: i ignore you and your senseless post because it says nothing, it just show your override attitude. You try to harm this threat with your needless intrusion. Not everybody understand things with Rockbox like you do. And there might be someone who try to understand things - but this is what you do can t understand in your affection of wisdom. Instead of explaining something you push your ego and blame people for what they never said. Your obvious problem is that you read words around you with wrong interpretation. So do not react for next time, do not waste your time and keep your posts for someone else, thank you.