iriver T-series flash-based players

[Falco98]

Does anyone have any information on these?  They're almost the only iriver products i see in retail stores (i.e. best buy has a shelf full), other than the h10 series.  I've seen no mention of them here, and was wondering if anyone knows anything about them, like if a port would even be possible (or feasible), etc.
Thanks

[markun]

I only know they use the SA58480X01 (T10) and SA58480X02 (T20) ARM9 CPUs from Samsung. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any documentation for them. I've emailed Samsung but didn't get a reply.

If you are able to decrypt the firmware update files or extract the contents of the flash ROM that would be a nice start. Also some pictures of the insides of one to identify other components would be good to have.

[greg_m]

Has anyone played with the T30?  This looks like a very nice machine to start with.  Line-Input encoding, supposedly up to 320kbps (according to specs on an Australian dealer's website)... that's excellent!

A minor port on this, adding a recording level meter, and adjustable gain *while* recording, would make it great for live recording.

I don't see any posts about this model, but if someone is looking for a good recording machine to be ported, I would suggest looking at the T30.

Thanks!

[Llorean]

There is no such thing as a "minor port." Rockbox is entirely a replacement firmware, so it "adds" all the features Rockbox has. It's not a modification that would add this or that feature, and leave everything else as it is.

[greg_m]

OIC.  I was thinking that perhaps if not all the Rockbox features worked properly, it might be possible to at least make the T30 a better audio machine, e.g. by adding recording VU display.

So you're saying it's all or nothing?

A related question, then... if I want only part of the Rockbox features (an existing version, for a small machine, for example Ondio), that's not possible?

[Llorean]

What do you mean by "part of the Rockbox features?"

[saratoga]

I have this theory that having threads like this effectively kills the chances of a rockbox port to the hardware in question.

[Mr. Brownstone]

Nothing "kills the chances" for a port. All any port needs is this:

1. Developers who are savvy with the ROCKbox codebase.
2. At least one of them owns the device in question.
3. They're motivated to start a port-effort.

This has been the case for every device ROCKbox has been ported to.

The following are things that slow the progress of ports:

1. Developers work in their free-time, and they don't have much of that.
2. There are far fewer developers than users, so it's more likely that a user of any particular device will post a request for a port than a developer will just start working on one.
3. Existing developers need to buy hardware in order to start a new port-effort. This requires personal funds, or donations via PayPal.

So loosen those purse strings or swat up on C and you might be in with a chance.

[Llorean]

Well, the most important thing is that the developers with the skill are genuinely interested in a specific MP3 player. Too many times people show up and say "I think a port for X would be great, but I don't have the skill" but what they do is they seek among people with the skill, for someone with an interest.

Ideally what should be done is to seek among people with an interest in that player for ones who either have the time, or the skill, to start work. Otherwise you're competing against every MP3 player out there, including ones the developer is already working on.

[greg_m]

Llorean, to answer your question...

In this case, the only features I'm interested in are those related to direct audio encoding.  If the T30 can encode good quality at 320kbps, that makes it potentially a much better "recorder" than most other MP3 boxes.

So, e.g., if the encoding parts of Rockbox could be made to work on the T30, but the video games etc. do not, I'd be perfectly satisfied.

I'll tell you what... I'm going to buy a T30 and try to evaluate the encoding quality and features, and report back here.  Perhaps if it's exceptionally good, some developer will become interested enough to work on it.  And I would gladly contribute a T30 to a qualified developer who wants to try a port for this model.

[saratoga]

Llorean, to answer your question...

In this case, the only features I'm interested in are those related to direct audio encoding.  If the T30 can encode good quality at 320kbps, that makes it potentially a much better "recorder" than most other MP3 boxes.

So, e.g., if the encoding parts of Rockbox could be made to work on the T30, but the video games etc. do not, I'd be perfectly satisfied.

Getting these features would involve porting essentially everything.  And probably more.  Lots of working Rockbox targets can't even record (Ipod, Iaudio), so its not a simple task.  You'd probably need to get a few people really interested in working on it, or at least one exceptionally motivated person. 

[Llorean]

Basically, you have to think of Rockbox as one program, rather than several things. Even the games are really part of the main program, in a way. What happens with ports is that you tend to get plugins first (games, etc) even before you have sound, since most of those will work as soon as you have a screen and buttons. Then sound support gets added, so you can actually play music. THEN recording support gets added.

You may be discouraged to know that at the moment Rockbox only supports recording as WAV (except on Archoses, which have hardware to encode MP3s.)

[greg_m]

Llorean, thanks for that explanation of how the Rockbox code interacts with the "box."  That puts an entirely different light on things.  I was thinking in "ondio" terms, where the software wouldn't have to encode the audio "from the ground, up" but would have a chipset there to do the encoding.

As far as recording only .wav format, that's not necessarily bad; the 1GB iRiver would still hold about 90 minutes of .wav at 44.1kHz x 16bit x 2ch.  And, in fact, the audio quality would be better than MP3, which is a good thing (although 320kbps MP3 is pretty good!).

Thank you again!

[greg_m]

Here's another question about what a Rockbox port will and won't do.

I'm used to the Ondio, which apparently has its own internal chipset to do the MP3 encoding.  From what you've said, the iRiver T30 does not, so any encoded audio would be strictly .wav ... that's fine.

One of the things I like about the Ondio is the fact that it has a moving bar-graph display of actual recording *level* (not just a display that shows the recording *gain* at some fixed number, e.g. 17).  I think this is very important, because it allows me to set recording gain so the record file isn't clipped.

If someone were to create a RockBox port for something like the T30, would it have the moving bar-graph display showing actual recording level?  Or does that function come from the encoding chip in the Ondio?

Thanks again for all the enlightenment!

[Llorean]

The current software codec (recording in WAV only so far) Rockbox ports have Peakmeters (what you're describing) on their recording screen. So yeah, if it were to come to the T30, it's very likely it could have this.

A few notes:
1) In the future, Rockbox almost certainly will have MP3 recording. In fact, I think there's a patch in the patch tracker that has some of the work toward this already done, though it may not be implemented in the "right" way.

2) Being as I don't know about the T30 hardware, it's completely possible there is a hardware encoder/decoder. I really couldn't say.