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shuffling

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arron:
I noticed there are a lot of posts on this subject, and I don't want to come off as just another complainer.. but this situation I think might be a little different..

I have a playlist of 900+ songs that I regularly use. the first time I used it with shuffle was fine and I listened for about 25 songs, but as time went on, I noticed that those same 20-25 songs that came up that first time were coming up every time I started up that playlist on shuffle again, randomly still, but always within about the first 40 songs at least 20 from that first listen would come up again. even if I reshuffled in the middle of a song a lot of them would still get queued up at the beginning of the list. it's now gotten to the point where it gets very annoying to hear those same songs and have to skip that many of them every time I open that playlist when there are 850 more that never get played. it seems like what's happening is that every time a song gets played, that increases the chances of it being played again next time you use that playlist on shuffle, which probably isn't even possible, but I swear that's what it looks like is happening.

I guess my (stupid) question would be, is there a way to make it "more" random than it already is? some parameter that can be tweaked or something?

silvertree:
I have a folder of assorted songs.  Appropriately named "assorted".

It's full of singles and otutakes etc. that don't belong on albums.

Maybe 300 tracks.

My approach is to open that folder using the "Files" menu option.  I select a song close to the top of the list.  After playback I shuffle.

I have observed a peculiar pairing of tracks.

I should point out that all file names follow a Artist - [track] - title format.

What I have seen just today is that rockbox "magically" pairs together:

The Staccatos - For what it's Worth with Art - For what it's Worth

then later:

Sophie B Hawkins - I Want You with Bob Dylan and the Grateful Dead - I Want You.

A few songs later it paired together:

Aqualung - Slip Sliding Away with Paul Simon - Slip Sliding Away.


Now, I don't want to say something is broken but 3 times is either a miracle or a problem.

[Saint]:
This comes up fairly often.

The thing is, most people don't actually want true randomness in a playlist (put down the pitchfork for just now and keep reading ;) ). Both the issues described in the previous posts should actually have a higher chance of occurring if there was true randomness when shuffled.

The way Rockbox's psuedo-random shuffle works ensures that each track in the current playlist will be played exactly once. Giving exactly one chance for a pairing of tracks within N proximity to occur each time the playlist is shuffled. If this were true randomness, the chances of such a pairing occurring should be infinite, though the odds of them occurring decrease with the size of a given playlist.

On to the topic of "our random isn't random",  I don't really know how to address that. I have tried a few times to see if there was any repeatable pattern in the shuffling (and I believe others have before me), and I just plain can't do it. The people that claim it does happen (not saying it doesn't) never seem to actually have any data that can verify there actually is a pattern. Its difficult.


[Saint]

silvertree:
That's a reasonable response for me, considering you and people like yourself have probably said it numerous times.  Thank you.

I, personally, am not calling for change or reform.  I'm just weighing in for the possible benefit of all concerned.

The cases where I find the lack of randomness irritating are rather infrequent. 

Honestly, I consider the pairings as some kind of sign and use them as reasons to stay up a late and write drunken emails to ex-girlfriends.   ;)

arron:
yeah it's not that big of a deal, I'm just switching playlists more often now. I have a total of 19,000+ songs right now so I'm just making multiple playlists for different moods. plus I don't categorize my music as specifically as I could on my computer, which is not a big deal, but on my iPod, a little more of a big deal  :P

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