Problem with Rockbox manual installation on Sansa Clip Zip

[steak]

Hi guys,

I am trying to create a rockbox firmware for Sansa ClipZip using the manual installation procedure. I did search the forum and found this link :
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,35204.15.html

Considering the arguments which took place in it and the fact that it relates to rather to Installation Utility, I am posting my own topic here.

Before anyone asks... why not using the Installation Utility by the way ?

Simply because once I have created a rockbox firmware file, it will be simpler for me to copy/paste it on a number of identical players (family & friends follow my advice)

Besides, I've been using manual installation on Cowon D2's and Sansa Clip+'s on numerous occasions with no hassle so why bother with Utility ?

However, so far tonight it did not work with the Clip Zip files.

Just to avoid questions, here's what I exactly did following instructions & links in the latest daily built manual :

Using WinXP,  I downloaded and copy/pasted the following files in C:\rbinstall\ folder :

bootloader-clipzip.sansa
mkamsboot.exe

clpza.bin (latest=v.01.01.20 Sandisk original firmware)

Then I ran the command line :
c:\rbinstall\mkamsboot.exe clpza.bin bootloader-clipzip.sansa patched.bin

No file was created 
I re-did the same with Sansa Clip+ files and it worked fine

Any idea  ? Should I re-download in a few days to check if files have been updated/corrected ?

Please do use simple suggestions, anything over basics is beyond my skills

Regards,

Steph

[saratoga]

You can do this with rbutil much easier.

But if you want to use the command line for some reason, post the log. 

[[Saint]]

If you were to do this with RbUtil, once, couldn't you dig the patched firmware out of the RbUtil cache and apply it to the other device(s) manually?


[Saint]

[steak]

One more reason to use the command line : I have ordered 2 clipzip's, one has arrived at my nephew's address, mine has not yet. So I am trying to generate the patched file without the player. Could I do this with rbutil ??

Back to your :
saratoga : where is the log ?

saint : where would be rbutil cache ? Also note that digging might get one confused as the file named "patched.bin" found might relate to another player. I would look at the file details but there modifying the command line or having the folder \rbinstall\ opened while I'm at it seems more obvious.

[saratoga]

Yes you can and in your command prompt.

[bluebrother]

Before anyone asks... why not using the Installation Utility by the way ?

Simply because once I have created a rockbox firmware file, it will be simpler for me to copy/paste it on a number of identical players (family & friends follow my advice)

I don't see what's complicated in connecting the player, making sure bootloader and build checkboxes are checked and pressing Install. Can you elaborate how we can simplify installation here?

To me you're wasting other peoples time by solving a problem that does not exist. Have you ever installed Rockbox on the Clip Zip with Rockbox Utility?

So I am trying to generate the patched file without the player. Could I do this with rbutil ??

Yes. Rockbox Utility places the patched file on the player. After upgrading its firmware the player deletes that file. There's nobody preventing you from copying that file to a different location first ...

Secondly, the player appears as a mass storage device to the PC. So when Rockbox Utility is writing data to the player it's writing data to a mass storage device, and in contrast to other players like the Ipods that have a special partition structure the Clip Zip has not.

[steak]

Bluebrother is watching me 

I don't see what's complicated in connecting the player

Neither do I but that's not the point.
I don't see either what's complicated in using the command line. The point is why is it not working THIS time.

To me you're wasting other peoples time by solving a problem that does not exist.

To me you are wasting your time by answering to a question I never asked and mine by patronizing me.
And the problem does exits: manual install not working THIS time.
 

Have you ever installed Rockbox on the Clip Zip with Rockbox Utility?

As mentionned in my post, I don't have the Clip Zip yet, and I assumed it was not possible to "simulate" installation.

I have indeed used teh Rockbox Utility with Cowon D2 and Sansa Clip+... but I prefer the manual install. One more reason to those given in my previous messages : it's can be done easily offline. I live in diffrerent places and one has no internet connection available.

Do you wanna know more ? Post a message about it, you will learn things about different people having different ways of thinking, something that seems alien to you, as computing science is to me.

Another question you may ask if manual install is such a bad idea, why leave it in the manual ? Maybe it gives people a rough idea of what they are doing ?

So I am trying to generate the patched file without the player. Could I do this with rbutil ??

Yes. Rockbox Utility places the patched file on the player. After upgrading its firmware the player deletes that file. There's nobody preventing you from copying that file to a different location first ...

That's a good tip and it worked, thanks
Let me tell you though: it does not feel simple. Had you not told me I could, I would have been confused by the fact browsing to a different location (not root) is not allowed, only picking a drive root. In my case command line remains more obvious.

Lastly

Can you elaborate how we can simplify installation here?

No : Utility is just good as it is.
I would not even wish for a change allowing to browse to a different location (not root), as I suspect it may bring some users into mistaken installation...

Regards.

[steak]

Yes you can and in your command prompt.

Eeermhhhhhh...
 
"I can" what ? can I

and what ? is "in your command prompt"

AND define "command prompt" if you don't mean "command line"

[[Saint]]

"I can" what ?

This:

Could I do this with rbutil ??

Yes you can

and what ? is "in your command prompt"

This:

saratoga : where is the log ?

These people are simply trying to help you, and in the course of doing so, trying to understand why you are making the decisions you are making. Toning your reactions down might help if you want this to continue to happen in the future. I think you have read tone into the responses that simply wasn't there.


[Saint]

[steak]

These people are simply trying to help you, and in the course of doing so, trying to understand why you are making the decisions you are making. Toning your reactions down might help if you want this to continue to happen in the future. I think you have read tone into the responses that simply wasn't there.
[Saint]

Toning down ? I did not intent to tone up. I even thought I could sound lightly fun
At second thought I realise how I may have been misunderstood. I apologize if it was not understood as such.
Also think again considering I am not writing in my own language.

Back to saratoga answer : no fun nor up tone, only total misunderstanding of "Yes you can and in your command prompt."

"Yes you can" => "with the rbutil" occured to me but that's a bit short, so I wondered if I had not missed something. Sorted anyway in [Bluebrother] reply.

"in your command prompt" => the log is in my command prompt I still do not understand. I thought the log would be a file where what actually happened after command was executed. If it's the command line itself, then how  could I rephrase the answer "The log you're looking for is in the log" ?? And wasn't saratoga asking me to "post the log" ? If the log is the command line, didn't I write it down in initially I am totally confused. 

You guys are trying to help and I do sincerely hope you don't feel wasting your time (don't have to anyway) AND I AM GRATEFUL.
BUT
I try to understand and sometimes it's a hard struggle !!

When you feel my tone gets out of control, consider it might point at myself. Bear that in mind when reading other "simple" users messages. My job involves evaluating psychological interactions (no kidding) and I think I do it well... as long as I am not involved. Reading other posts I can hear tone in questions and/or answers, where I hear it depending on which side I take, guessing if it was intended being most often a BLIND assumption.

[steak]

I simply think one (or more) files downloaded and used for the manual install "command prompt are wrong. I'll try again in a few days when I have my ClipZip.

Still interested in expert  opinion but... don't give it if you think it's a waste of time : you won't waste mine but yours indeed.

[bluebrother]

Bluebrother is watching me 

No. I've been asking questions. Maybe questions you didn't like too much since I was questioning the reasoning of your choice of doing things. Anyway, for the actual problem:

No file was created 

How does "no file created" look like? Did mkamsboot output something? Did it output a success message? An error message? That's what saratoga was asking for -- the log of the commands you typed *and* the output of those. Knowing you typing the correct commands doesn't indicate everything is ok ...

However, this is pretty easy to figure by simply checking the binary you use. Looking on the download server I find:

mkamsboot.exe    16-Jan-2012 19:01    17K

Looking into the log of mkamsboot source I find:

commit a12b2a5df96233465a2811f9b056e15d7ff30ee2
Author: Bertrik Sikken
Date:   Sun Apr 8 11:46:02 2012 +0200

    mkamsboot: add support for clip zip original firmware 01.01.20 (tested by me)

which makes it clear why not file gets created. I would expect mkamsboot to output a message stating that it doesn't understand the firmware file you told it to patch. However, since you never told us about this I have no idea if that happened. Or if not, in which case it might be a good idea to implement this in mkamsboot.

In the end you have two options: use Rockbox Utility. Or build yourself an updated mkamsboot. There's a reason why we recommend Rockbox Utility all the time ...

Edit: ok, I'm somewhat wrong here -- support for the Clip Zip has been added back in 2011. However, since support for the firmware mentioned above has been added after the binary has been built I wouldn't be surprised for the firmware you've been using to be exactly that version -- or perhaps even a newer, in case Sandisk released an update since. So there could still be another cause for your problems ...

[steak]

Bluebrother is watching me 

Bluebrother <=> Big Brother, (A Huxley)... +... you ARE WATCHING ME indeed : each time I read your post, I SEE YOU on the left side of your messages. Scarry !

Maybe questions you didn't like too much since I was questioning the reasoning of your choice of doing things

It's not that I don't like your questions it's that somehow sometimes they sound more like value judgment than actual questions.
It's not only hard to understand IT, I also have to understand you !! But then just fair enough you don't always understand me...
Anyway I apologize for any previous/next time I have/would offend you un-intentionally AND I don't mind you telling me when you feel taht way as such feedback is good for self knowledge.

Back to subject :

No file was created 

How does "no file created" look like? Did mkamsboot output something? Did it output a success message? An error message? That's what saratoga was asking for -- the log of the commands you typed *and* the output of those. Knowing you typing the correct commands doesn't indicate everything is ok ...

No file, no output message, nothing. That would have made sense and I am relieved to see I was more or less right about what saratoga meant by log.

However, this is pretty easy to figure by simply checking the binary you use
.../...
Or if not, in which case it might be a good idea to implement this in mkamsboot.

Answer is "not". Glad I help you getting a good idea

In the end you have two options: use Rockbox Utility.

I don't mind

Or build yourself an updated mkamsboot.

I just did ! Only so far it works with an abacus.

3rd option: I'll be using manual install whenever mkamsboot gets updated 

I wouldn't be surprised for the firmware you've been using to be exactly that version

Indeed it's v.01.01.20, downloaded 2 days ago so an update would be really NEW

[saratoga]

Bluebrother is watching me 

Bluebrother <=> Big Brother, (A Huxley)... +... you ARE WATCHING ME indeed : each time I read your post, I SEE YOU on the left side of your messages. Scarry !

While Huxley is an author, he did not write 1984. 

No file, no output message, nothing. That would have made sense and I am relieved to see I was more or less right about what saratoga meant by log.

Its good that you've figured out what a log is, but you still haven't posted it . . .

[steak]

Bluebrother is watching me 

Bluebrother <=> Big Brother, (A Huxley)... +... you ARE WATCHING ME indeed : each time I read your post, I SEE YOU on the left side of your messages. Scarry !

While Huxley is an author, he did not write 1984. 
[/quote]
How disgraceful ! I meant Orwell, too late for editing. Augh! Let's keep this between us and the rest of internet.

No file, no output message, nothing. That would have made sense and I am relieved to see I was more or less right about what saratoga meant by log.

Its good that you've figured out what a log is, but you still haven't posted it . . .

No file, no output message, nothing. Not even a  log to post. Or I'm mad again.