porting RockBox to a Mp3/MP4 player with Manufacturer's cooperation

[portable]

Hi everyone,

I wonder if there will be any interest in the RockBox community to help port RockBox into a Mp3/mp4 player that uses telechips. Especially if I can get manufacturer to help to work on it. Therefore, there you won't need to do any reverse engineering or whatsoever. I might also be able to get the source code for the current firmware as well.

Reason to do this is because the current firmware the manufacturer uses is rather primitive (although it works alright). Prelimary test on the mp3 sound quality revealed that it is nearly as good as output from the computer's sound card.

Cheers
Eric

Waiting to hear some good news ......


Specification of the mp4 Hi-X8 player (for the first port of mp4 player from CEC)



Features/Highlights
    * Plays mp3, wma audio files
    * Plays mp4 video files
    * Plays Macromedia flash
    * 2.4" TFT LCD
    * Removable Mass Storage device
    * 2 build-in game (Russia square and push box)
    * Firmware upgradable (for future file support and bug fixes)
    * OTG support, i.e. Transfer and view files (eg photos) from devices such as digital camera
    * unlimited recording via microphone in mp3 format
    * integrated FM transmitter allows play back on car radio, etc
    * up to ~12 hours mp3 playback
    * up to ~6 hours mp4 video playback
    * recharge via USB port or USB charger (provided)
    * 210g; 109 x 73 x 22 mm
    * the 2.5" HDD can be easily replaced/upgraded
    * 1 year warranty for the player

For more details please visit http://www.portable.geek.nz

[Llorean]

For a port to start in general, there has to be at least one (but often more) developer who owns the player and is willing to do a lot of the initial work for hardware drivers and such. Even with Manufacturer Cooperation, this would probably still be a moderately time consuming task (depending on the level of cooperation. At some point the manufacturer is adapting our software for their player instead, but then it's open source and they're free to do that as long as they honor the GPL).
That being said, I'm somewhat uncertain you'd have much luck getting any sort of agreement out of the manufacturer anyway.

For a little more information about the general new port process, you can read this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort

[saratoga]

Hi everyone,

I wonder if there will be any interest in the RockBox community to help port RockBox into a Mp3/mp4 player what uses telechips. Especially if I can get manufacturer to help to work on it. Therefore, there you won't need to do any reverse engineering or whatsoever. I might also be able to get the source code for the current firmware as well.

Reason to do this is because the current firmware the manufacturer uses is rather primitive (although it works alright). Prelimary test on the mp3 sound quality revealed that it is nearly as good as output from the computer's sound card.

Cheers
Eric

Waiting to hear some good news ......

People here will be glad to offer help while you port it.  Ask any questions you've got.  Just don't ask them to do it for you 

[Bagder]

I wonder if there will be any interest in the RockBox community to help port RockBox into a Mp3/mp4 player what uses telechips. Especially if I can get manufacturer to help to work on it.

We will always help new ports and porters, with manufacturer help or not. But don't expect anyone without target players to be able to do anything really technical or low-level.

IMHO, manufacturer help would be best if it included docs and a handful of players to hand out to interested existing developers.

[portable]

Wow, that sounds good.

Assuming the manufacturer can devote one person who knows the player very well to work on porting RockBox into their player, how long do you expect that person to take? one week, two weeks?

[Bagder]

Assuming the manufacturer can devote one person who knows the player very well to work on porting RockBox into their player, how long do you expect that person to take? one week, two weeks?

It depends on a lot of factors so I hesitate to speculate on actual time required. Also, "telechips" is not specific enough for me to tell how hard the arch/CPU adjustment parts will be.

But given a skilled engineer with documentation and a HW with no particular problems, I figure they could have at least a basic port working in two weeks.

[saratoga]

Do they have to rewrite teh stuff from scratch?  Or is the company ok releasing some of their existing code in GPL form?  Because if they could reuse their existing bootloader, and write wrappers around the existing driver code, a port would probably not take very long.  Though I don't think many companies would be willing to give away their source code (or even able if the code was licensed from a vendor).

OT:  I've always wondered if any companies look at rockbox.  Seems like it would be cheaper to port rockbox to a new MP3 player then to develop from scratch, plus you'd get all the extra format support. 

[portable]

Do you think it is possible to port RockBox over to this mp3/mp4 player if someone is given the source code of the exisiting firmware without having the hardware itself?

We would be delighted if someone can help us port the Rockbox over or tell us exactly how to do it. The manufacturer is on our side, hence I can get you any info you need to port it over.

For more details on the product, please visit my site -- www.portable.geek.nz

For the A8 model - it uses Telechips TCC761
For the X6 model - it uses Telechips TCC721

Does it help at all if you were given the software used to load the firmware to the machine?

[Bagder]

Do you think it is possible to port RockBox over to this mp3/mp4 player if someone is given the source code of the exisiting firmware without having the hardware itself?

Well, if you know what target CPU too (I mean so that you can have a cross-compiler all setup to build with) I guess you can make a pretty good effort at least. That said, I don't think anyone would do this just for fun.

The manufacturer is highly interested to port Rockbox over, the point is how do we do this? As this player is not commonly available at the moment.

Then I would say they should be prepared to pay for development work.

[portable]

Well, do we have an estimated price how much it cost for this developmental work? Or instructions for so that the manufacturer can work on themselves? the page -- http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort is not that clear to me. (although I am not a programmer..)

[Bagder]

Well, do we have an estimated price how much it cost for this developmental work?

Oh. I can't speak for anyone else but myself of course, but I would guesstimate a fair hourly fee is around 100USD and given that HW and docs is available (there don't seem to be any public data sheets for those telechips MCUs) a two week period full-time should probably be good to get a first version there.

The problem would probably be more to find someone who's skilled enough and able to get two weeks off from what they're doing now to work on something like this.

the page -- ... NewPort is not that clear to me.

That page is meant to describe how to reverse engineer foreign hardware, in a generic way. All targets of course need their own specific approach and there's no way a simple wiki page can include all those details.

If you have the docs and code to read as reference, there is no need to follow or even read that NewPort wiki page.

instructions for so that the manufacturer can work on themselves?

rockbox.org is loaded with info, the source code is there and we have a very living developer community on this forum, on the mailing lists and on IRC. It would simply be a matter of diving in!

[linuxstb]

I agree with Daniel's earlier suggestion that the manufacturer should offer to donate some players to Rockbox developers - this would be a lot cheaper than paying for development time.   

I for one could be tempted to work on it by the offer of a free device, but can only do it in my spare time, and wouldn't be able to commit to any definite timescales.

Donated devices, along with the source code to the existing firmware, schematics of the hardware and datasheets for the used components would make a Rockbox port as easy as it ever can be.

[portable]

Donated devices, along with the source code to the existing firmware, schematics of the hardware and datasheets for the used components would make a Rockbox port as easy as it ever can be.

These should not be much of a problem. Manufacturer is interested to know what can rockbox do to these players. Interface aside, current firmware allow it to play mp3, wma, mp4 (after software conversion to 280x220 24frames), macromedia flash, 2 build in game (Russia square and push box),  OTG transfer, FM transmitter/FM radio (depending on model), mp3 recording..

Would rockbox allow the player to do these functions as well as some new functions?

Oh. I can't speak for anyone else but myself of course, but I would guesstimate a fair hourly fee is around 100USD and given that HW and docs is available (there don't seem to be any public data sheets for those telechips MCUs) a two week period full-time should probably be good to get a first version there.

100USD/hr is way too much for us to pay for. However, we can probably offer some other incentives which might allow you to earn even more $$ (but you put some work on it to earn the incentives...)

[portable]

Do they have to rewrite teh stuff from scratch?  Or is the company ok releasing some of their existing code in GPL form?  Because if they could reuse their existing bootloader, and write wrappers around the existing driver code, a port would probably not take very long.  Though I don't think many companies would be willing to give away their source code (or even able if the code was licensed from a vendor).

Well, I am confident that I can get you the current source code, however, I am not sure if the current source code can be released publically.

[Bagder]

Would rockbox allow the player to do these functions as well as some new functions?

Some of those functions listed are not yet offered by Rockbox (video, USB OTG, fm transmit), but on the other hand Rockbox offers a lot of more functions than so.

I guess this page could shed some light on what current Rockbox can offer:

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox