Creative Zen Vision:M

[mcuelenaere]

I noticed there is flash memory dump in wiki so if you could read flash memory could we also write something to it? I'm asking because i have broken zen that isn't switching on when hdd is plugged in. I see only creative logo then black screen and reset. I have 1,8"->usb adapter so if somebody could help me i will be pleased.

That's correct, you can read and write to it; but the problem is: if you can't get past the Creative load screen there's no easy way to get code on it so you can't access flash memory.

The not so easy way is to attach JTAG to the device or (even harder) to extract the flash memory chip from it and make a flash reader/writer for it.

[jermey]

actually I just found out how to run my Zen with hdd working and rockbox bootloader and so. It this help? What is JTAG? It's some hardware to read flash memory or just software?

[spitfire]

Is there a website, where progress (what is currently working, and what is not) of getting rockbox working on ZV:M is tracked?
The port page http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CreativeZVMPort is too cryptic, and informations are hard to find...could anyone create and update such informations somewhere(eg. at rockbox epizenter forum)?

[AlexP]

Is there a website, where progress (what is currently working, and what is not) of getting rockbox working on ZV:M is tracked?
The port page http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CreativeZVMPort is too cryptic, and informations are hard to find...could anyone create and update such informations somewhere(eg. at rockbox epizenter forum)?

No.  Information about a port effort for Rockbox should stay on the Rockbox site.  I for one am not about to go looking at other random sites.  If you want to do that, that is of course up to you.

As for progress, this thread contains it, but it is for development only.  Please do not post to ask about progress.  When there is some, it will be posted here.

[Transience]

Would it be possible to format the ZVM's HDD in windows xp with 010Editor, since 010 treats the ZVM like a removable disk in xp? I'm not 100% certain, but I think that 010 can read the entire disk (both partitions) as raw hex. If this is the case, how would I go about formatting the drive?

[Hoffmann]

So I try to repeat the installation method with my own words to find hidden traps. PLEASE CORRECT ME - If I understood s.th. wrong!

1. I mount the HDD of the ZVM (and mouting means realy mounting the HDD and not just using the "usb-extern-harddrive-feature" of the ZVM).
2. I format the 2^nd partition as fat
3. I build rockbox using linux OS (using linux virtually or actually)
4. I move all that compiled stuff to /mnt/what-ever/.rockbox/ on the zvm-hdd (except rockbox.zvm)
5. I unmount and unconnect everything and reboot the zvm
6. I copy the "rockbox.zvm"-file like I usualy copy mediafiles to the zvm
7. I reboot the zvm again and rockbox should be working *tada*
(8. I upload my build rockbox binarys to rockbox.org
 9. I tell ppl on this board that everything worked well)

Is it possible to attach a bigger 1.8"-HDD to my zvm?

Anybody has any hints for dissambling the zvm without destroying the hole magic eletronic and maybe even without scratches?

[mcuelenaere]

So I try to repeat the installation method with my own words to find hidden traps. PLEASE CORRECT ME - If I understood s.th. wrong!

1. I mount the HDD of the ZVM (and mouting means realy mounting the HDD and not just using the "usb-extern-harddrive-feature" of the ZVM).
2. I format the 2^nd partition as fat
3. I build rockbox using linux OS (using linux virtually or actually)
4. I move all that compiled stuff to /mnt/what-ever/.rockbox/ on the zvm-hdd (except rockbox.zvm)
5. I unmount and unconnect everything and reboot the zvm
6. I copy the "rockbox.zvm"-file like I usualy copy mediafiles to the zvm
7. I reboot the zvm again and rockbox should be working *tada*
(8. I upload my build rockbox binarys to rockbox.org
 9. I tell ppl on this board that everything worked well)

Is it possible to attach a bigger 1.8"-HDD to my zvm?

Anybody has any hints for dissambling the zvm without destroying the hole magic eletronic and maybe even without scratches?

Correct. Don't forget to upload rockbox.zvm using either sendfirm or CreativeWizard. (just uploading it in MTP won't work because a special attribute needs to be set)

Yes, it is possible to attach a bigger HDD in it, but the height has to be maximum 5mm if I remember correctly, meaning only single platter HDD's.

For opening: the abi disassemble tutorial is perfect.

Just watch out with the bottom, if you aren't careful there you'll break off some plastic holding the screws (like I did); nothing really bad though.

Would it be possible to format the ZVM's HDD in windows xp with 010Editor, since 010 treats the ZVM like a removable disk in xp? I'm not 100% certain, but I think that 010 can read the entire disk (both partitions) as raw hex. If this is the case, how would I go about formatting the drive?

It is possible with 010Editor, but it will be very tough and require a lot of FAT expertise I presume
Perhaps there's a way of doing this on Windows, but as I couldn't mount the HDD correctly under Windows (only in Linux) I haven't searched for it. The main thing you need to do is format a piece of the HDD in FAT. Perhaps what you could do is overwrite the first sector (first make a backup!) with a normal header (use fdisk?) and set 1 partition at the correct place and format it as FAT.

[quetzalcoatl]

Hi everyone:)

mcuelenaere - I have found the sources on my linux machine, but they are from somewhat early version.. It is only a CFS's inode reader, operating on dumpfiles, so there's almost nothing interesting in it except header files with a few raw structures' definitions. maybe I have some newer/better versions on other machines, i'll check in the evening

[mcuelenaere]

Hi quetzalcoatl

Perhaps this should be discussed in the Creative ZVM Port thread, but for the time being it'll suffice.
Thanks for finding the time posting on the forums.

Perhaps a little bit of info for other people: quetzalcoatl is the one who did a lot of research for the Creative filesystems at nomadness.net and can hopefully help us understand how it works and help writing a read-only driver.

@quetzalcoatl:
What we need is
 a) a very limited read-only cfs driver which can locate a specific file (because the aim is to run a virtual filesystem in cfs which can be mounted through the Original Firmware to ease working on Rockbox and enable dual booting; the file in cfs is called VFSYS)
 b) a read-only minifs driver which could provide dual booting (actually the same thing as above needs to be accomplished, namely 'jukebox2.jrm' needs to be loaded into RAM and started)

For some more info, see the CreativeZVMPort wiki page.

BTW did you get my mails containing the disk dump I gave you?

[AlexP]

Hi,

I've merged the new thread about the filesystem with the ZVM thread as suggested by mcuelenaere, as the thread that appeared about filesystems was a little cryptic without context

[quetzalcoatl]

thanks for moving the post, after browsing the forum for a while I really had no idea where to put it.. 'compilation' seemed to be best place:)

BTW did you get my mails containing the disk dump I gave you?

yes, i got the file, it can be removed from the net drive

about the jukebox.jrm - easy task. the MINIFS volume is like FAT and is completely FLAT. one bitmap, one clusterchain list, one directory with filenames, and the rest is for the files. volume is 20mb allways, and all the positions are constant

about the VFSYS - could you be more specific? is it a file that 'factory' puts on the drive? i dont remember such file.. or maybe this will be a file of yours? if so, where and how it will be placed? as a song? as a data file? or manually as a system file*? the first (factory) and latter (system file) makes locating the file trivial, while the 'song/data' options - result in more complex algorithms and higher data access time

*) mind that there is no way to put it there except raw hexediting the drive, or writing proper tool/driver to do the same!

[mcuelenaere]

...

about the jukebox.jrm - easy task. the MINIFS volume is like FAT and is completely FLAT. one bitmap, one clusterchain list, one directory with filenames, and the rest is for the files. volume is 20mb allways, and all the positions are constant

good, do you have any code for that laying around?

about the VFSYS - could you be more specific? is it a file that 'factory' puts on the drive? i dont remember such file.. or maybe this will be a file of yours? if so, where and how it will be placed? as a song? as a data file? or manually as a system file*? the first (factory) and latter (system file) makes locating the file trivial, while the 'song/data' options - result in more complex algorithms and higher data access time

*) mind that there is no way to put it there except raw hexediting the drive, or writing proper tool/driver to do the same!

I suppose it isn't available at the older Creative devices (like Nomad etc), but there's a function in Creative Zen devices which allows you to have an external UMS drive on which you can do whatever you want (mind that the standard transfer protocol is MTP which is similar to NJB as it is evenly stupid and hides away the underlying file system).

This is achieved by the OS by creating a file (I don't know which type) named VFSYS on the device itself (beware that this information is based on some disassembling of the Original Firmware and some guessing, but I'm pretty sure it works like this).

So what we need is a way to find where the actual data for this virtual file system is located and if so, Rockbox can access it and have a read/write (virtual) hard drive.

[quetzalcoatl]

good, do you have any code for that laying around?

No, none at all.

I've looked into the CF dump you have provided - this is the same disk structure as on NJB, but contents are very different. MINIFS is 50mb instead of 20mb (thus, CFS is limited to ~72,25mb) and contains many new files. Special sectors ('/' directory!) offsets has changed and need to be revised or recalculated. Back then, I saw only MINIFS of 20mb so I assumed the offsets be constant, now its clear they are calculable somehow. It should not be a big problem, I still have many samples of old volumes. But, if you could provide a diskdump of a *different* card - ideally smaller - 64mb, 32mb - this would be a great help. Of course, if players with such cards do exist at all

I'll prepare some example code by weekend.

BTW1. the CF image seems to use different endianess
BTW2. where did you get the "hdd partitioning info" section from? i mean, on the wiki page. someone did a good job describing the basics, but the structures are incorrect *if* they are describing the NJB drives - including the CF dump you have provided - it matches my knowledge not theirs. Or maybe they are describing much newer drive? ZenVision's? Any dumps available for it? It'd be great if I could compare the dumps the autor was working on with mine

[mcuelenaere]

...

I've looked into the CF dump you have provided - this is the same disk structure as on NJB, but contents are very different. MINIFS is 50mb instead of 20mb (thus, CFS is limited to ~72,25mb) and contains many new files. Special sectors ('/' directory!) offsets has changed and need to be revised or recalculated. Back then, I saw only MINIFS of 20mb so I assumed the offsets be constant, now its clear they are calculable somehow. It should not be a big problem, I still have many samples of old volumes. But, if you could provide a diskdump of a *different* card - ideally smaller - 64mb, 32mb - this would be a great help. Of course, if players with such cards do exist at all

I'll prepare some example code by weekend.

Thanks!

BTW did you take a look at the code I sent you?

BTW1. the CF image seems to use different endianess
BTW2. where did you get the "hdd partitioning info" section from? i mean, on the wiki page. someone did a good job describing the basics, but the structures are incorrect *if* they are describing the NJB drives - including the CF dump you have provided - it matches my knowledge not theirs. Or maybe they are describing much newer drive? ZenVision's? Any dumps available for it? It'd be great if I could compare the dumps the autor was working on with mine

Almost all the information on the wiki is mine, and most is based on reverse engineering the original firmware or guessing.

I have here a 32MB, 128MB and 2GB CF card (and a 30GB HDD) laying around I can try to use; but as the minifs partition requires 50MB I doubt the 32MB CF card will work (these are all tested on a modded Zen Vision:M, but the structure is similar to the other devices)

I also have another disk dump at the wiki and I believe Falafel also made some (this is of a Creative Zen Vision, not a Creative Zen Vision:M; but they run the same hardware and the same OS)

edit:
the 32MB CF card gave me a hard disk error when I tried to format it in the recovery mode

[quetzalcoatl]

@32mb driver error -- not good for the case, but any new knowledge is allways a good thing

there were only 2 options:
- either the device accepts the drive and formats it with _smaller_ minifs [50mb is not obligatory, on older devices minifs was 20mb] and we'll have a nice way of generating different samples
- or device rejected the drive - this has happened - and this means, that:
---A) ZenVisionM requires drive at least 50mb + sizeof(minimal empty cfs)
---B) the rescue-mode-module of firmware has the minifs size hardcoded to 50mb or calculates the size of MINIFS from the numberof/sizeof the files it wants to put there

The problem is, I dont really recall (nor find in my notes) finding ANY info on how to calculate offsets of special clusters on MINIFS.. the fact of B) means that newer players differ a bit from older ones (njb: 20mb vs zenvision=50mb, other models - ), what means that position of special clusters is also different and I need a way to find it. Or create a list of known devices configurations'. The calculations I have made back then for NJB are not applicable here, I'll have to reverse it again. No big deal, just a matter of one-two weekends.

If you could generate an image for different drive 64mb, 256mb, whatever, just different from that one you've sent me - it'd be a great help - i'll compare the two volumes and if positions are equal, i'll just make quick-dirty-hardcoded filefinder working only on zenvision:m so you have something to start on
--

uhm.. code? what code? I didnt notice any.. when did you sent it?