Creative Zen Vision:M

[jhulst]

If money is a problem, I will be willing to donate some for this cause as I've already spent a fortune on this player, I'd be willing to pay some more to get it to work well!

Right now I think we are sitting okay with money,  I bought a test player and breihanj is taking care of the hard drive adapter.

Right, so I was wondering, when jhulst is finally able to hook up the harddrive of one to the computer (I would have a go but I'm still waiting for someone to say how to open the damn thing without using a crowbar).

There is a how to on disassembling the player at anythingbutipod.com.  If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask me, I've been able to get mine taken apart.  I'm not sure what this would get you unless if you had an adapter for the drive.

continue to try to force mount the zen. If only I knew what filesystem it supported it would be so much easier to gain access to it.

 
I've experimented with this as well.  The way I see it, the current firmware controls all communication with the computer.  If you try plugging it in, the player automatically starts up and libmtp seems to be the only way that it is allowing it to talk to the computer.    So I am not sure how we can work around this.

As soon as the hard drive adapter comes, breihanj will get us dumps of the hard drive in as many configurations as possible.

[iSE]

Excellent, well I will await for you guys to produce some magic and help where I can. I may try opening up my player and seeing about the hard drive however, if we then have two test players with both of the hard drives that would certainly be an advantage don't you think? I'll update you as I have it, but right now I'm off to my gf's 21st!

[Bagder]

Allow me to re-iterate a few facts:

1 - The Neuros OSD is based on what seems to be the same chip, and thus there is public code to check out.

2 - ArchOpen has code that runs and plays audio on at least one other DM320 -based player, so there is more public code to check out.

AFAIK, the ArchOpen guys start their stuff on a buffer overflow mostly so perhaps you could try that too.

[jhulst]

1 - The Neuros OSD is based on what seems to be the same chip, and thus there is public code to check out.

2 - ArchOpen has code that runs and plays audio on at least one other DM320 -based player, so there is more public code to check out.

I've been spending some time exploring the code from these other projects.  There is a lot to go through.

[iSE]

I've been spending some time exploring the code from these other projects.  There is a lot to go through.

Need a hand? PM me if you want and I could try taking some that you havent been through off your hands?

[mcuelenaere]

Allow me to re-iterate a few facts:

1 - The Neuros OSD is based on what seems to be the same chip, and thus there is public code to check out.

2 - ArchOpen has code that runs and plays audio on at least one other DM320 -based player, so there is more public code to check out.

AFAIK, the ArchOpen guys start their stuff on a buffer overflow mostly so perhaps you could try that too.

A question about the DSP: is it possible of using the API that Neuros uses ? I know there isn't any open-source alternative, so I thought we could use it or so ? Is this technically possible and, more important, does it comply with the licenses ? I know the DSP * doesn't have to be * implemented, but it would be very nice (especially for the battery-life)...

And another question: what about the compiler ?  Cause I read there isn't a open-source/free C54xx (compatible) compiler, or at least, not a working one... Or isn't this a problem ?

[Bagder]

A question about the DSP: is it possible of using the API that Neuros uses ? I know there isn't any open-source alternative, so I thought we could use it or so ? Is this technically possible and, more important, does it comply with the licenses ? I know the DSP * doesn't have to be * implemented, but it would be very nice (especially for the battery-life)...

The Neuros guys have said that you do have to use the DSP since the DSP side is what accesses the DAC so there's no sound otherwise. I guess the ArchOpen guys/source code can either dismiss or confirm this.

[mcuelenaere]

The Neuros guys have said that you do have to use the DSP since the DSP side is what accesses the DAC so there's no sound otherwise. I guess the ArchOpen guys/source code can either dismiss or confirm this.

So actually, this is some very good news. And I understood that the DSP also is used for the MPEG4/Xvid/DivX playback ? And that it also supports other audio codecs than MP3/WMA? Are these implemented in the API of Neuros ? I'll take a look at the source code myself, but as I did this before and didn't came up with anything relevant, I thought it would be better if I asked it here.

[iSE]

Ok well I've finally managed to mount the ZEN as a filesystem in linux using mtpfs. It allows me to see what is seen in windows when browsing the drive. I cannot however read the files:

DeviceInfo.xml
DeviceIcon.fil
DeviceLogo.fil

I'm guessin that the latter two are the PNG files which were extracted from the nk.bin which leads me to believe that the bin is not copied to the ZEN but is a collection of files which go all over. My opinion now is also that the firmware is not located on the harddrive and is most probably a flash of one of the chips. I am currently going through the Neuros OSD information to look for help, I will post in their forums and will try and contact one of the devs to ask for advice. If I am wrong and somebody knows better on this, please feel free to correct me.

[jhulst]

Ok well I've finally managed to mount the ZEN as a filesystem in linux using mtpfs. It allows me to see what is seen in windows when browsing the drive. I cannot however read the files:

I also got this to work yesterday and I also couldn't read any of the files.

My opinion now is also that the firmware is not located on the harddrive and is most probably a flash of one of the chips.

On mine, I saw a few other files that I thought could be the firmware.  I'm not sure that this is conclusive proof as I still think with mounting it you are still going through the Zen firmware as evidenced by the inability to read any of the files.  My guess is the player is still showing only what it wants to be shown and not actually allowing a "true" disk mount.

[toffe]

The zen is running PMC like the toshiba S. (If I am not mistaken)

You see only the partition for data from your computer

It should be another partition with the system files and as it is pmc you should have a file called NK.BIN
You really need to connect the drive direct on a computer to confirm this
The flash should contain only a file called Eboot.bin
These are standard for all wince device.

[iSE]

Excellent toffe. I sincerely hope we get evidence to prove this from when the harddrive is connected directly. Would it ever be possible then, once we have confirmed the exact address on the disk of the firmware, to overwrite the existing one without having to take the device apart? (This is assuming we can get the checksum check to pass)

[Llorean]

With software controlled USB it only has to show you what it wants seen, even if it did have UMS.

[saratoga]

True, but the updater program can clearly overwrite the built in software, so there must be a way to do it.  Since Creative didn't bother to encrypt the firmware in any way, I tend to think they haven't given much thought to obfuscation.   Maybe we'll get lucky.

[Danrarbc]

The zen is running PMC like the toshiba S. (If I am not mistaken)

I'm pretty sure it isn't. It's one of the reasons I bought it over the Toshiba cause I've read PMC isn't so hot.