My Themes will no longer work in the Current Build r30819-111021 - Clip

[KiwiCam]

It was suggested to me that I try the latest Rockbox build. Two of my themes no longer work (nOIsE and pULsE). I'm really enjoying creating themes, but I'm becoming demoralised, because I know there's so much more I can do with my ideas, but because I use so many Tags, Conditions & Viewports I am constantly pushing the Skin Buffer, which I understand to be the limiting factor regarding how far I can push my themes.

48.0KB's is a challenge and now the lastest build has reduced this to 40.4KB, which breaks my themes.

The manual specifically makes mention that the Skin Buffer is 80KB, which I WOULD LOVE to make use of. What happened to the 80Kb?

It also talks about a text file 'skin_buffer_size.txt" which would also mean I could be more creative with my themes. I've also tried this in the current build and that doesn't work either. I assume that I just place an "80" in the text file and restart the Clip. Correct?

PLEASE.

Am I correct in assuming that it's the Skin BUffer that is causing these theme limitations?
Is so, how can I get an increase in the Skin Buffer size?

If not, then what's causing the limitations?

[[Saint]]

It also talks about a text file 'skin_buffer_size.txt" which would also mean I could be more creative with my themes. I've also tried this in the current build and that doesn't work either. I assume that I just place an "80" in the text file and restart the Clip. Correct?

This feature the manual speaks of was reverted...and, apparently this was left in place in the manual.

This is an error, disregard it.

It would be nice if the feature itself wasn't reverted, especially as the feature itself wasn't in contention at all, only the way it was implemented. But instead of changing the implementation to one that everybody was comfortable with it was decided to just yank the whole thing, but...hey. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

<mournful violin music>
I too have "broken" themes that worked fine prior to recent commits...
</mournful violin music>


[Saint]

[KiwiCam]

It sounded like a darned good feature. But, in addition to that feature removal, the buffer appears to have been reduced for future releases. This sucks. You might as well not have the ability to theme at all, if you can't be creative with them. I want to go WILD with these things. I'm brimming with ideas. It's incredible what we should be able to do with these themes, and I'm so enthusiastic about this. But, I'm striking what seems to be a deliberately placed artificial barrier, and I don't know why.

Admittedly, having a 48KB buffer has helped me be as creative as possible, so that's been great but I might as well just give up with doing anything more, if it's going to be lowered 40.4KB. I'm pushing the limits with 48KB. I'd like to be pushing the limits of 80KB or 120KB, or more. Is their a physical limit to this buffer size? Or, will the Clip just become noticeably slower to operate?

What's the reason please as to why this option was removed, and why does it need to be lowered to 40.4KB?

I'm at the point, where I can't make, more interesting and (IMO) better themes. I'm certain the Clip can handle it. Easily.

I'd like to start doing SBS's and FMS screens, but that forces me to make, what I feel now, are necessary sacrifices in my current WPS screens.

Yes, I am ranting, and I'm sorry if this gets me off on a bad footing with some important people here. But this is the first time I've ever actually been interested in doing something like this and I feel I'm contributing something here. I'd like to do more.

I'd really appreciate it if this buffer situation could be looked at again. A reinstatement of the .txt file would be my preferred option.

Please.

[Llorean]

Saint has been a little unclear. The feature wasn't removed, it was removed until it's implemented in an agreeable way. Even the person who wrote the previous version admitted it wasn't the right way to do it.

As it stood, someone couldn't install your theme from the theme site and just expect it to work. They'd have to make sure their text file allocated the appropriate amount, which might be impossible if they discovered the theme wasn't working once they turned on their player on the bus. An appropriate solution should be something either a user can configure within Rockbox, or better yet, not depend on the user to take action at all other than possibly rebooting the player.

So please, curb your rant a little. There is desire to make sure that themes work. While there may be some constraint on theme size (the players don't have infinite memory obviously, and there's a need to balance its availability to other things), it should allow a fair amount of complexity to be involved. What we're dealing with now is more "bug" than basic "limitation."

Obviously themes working previously (to the contentious commit) and not working now is clearly a bug. If it's not in the tracker documenting when these themes stopped working (not with the removal of that commit, but the first time they stopped working) it needs to be. Other than that, it's just an issue of someone coming up with a more comprehensive fix to the problem, rather than a temporary bandaging over of it.

[KiwiCam]

So please, curb your rant a little.

Consider it parked and in the garage.

But, why the reduction? Why not, at the very least, keep it at the 48.0KB? Couldn't it just be pushed up just a little bit more than what it is now? 

[Llorean]

I honestly can't answer that. It would probably be reasonable for someone to statically allocate a larger amount until whatever issues extant are resolved. While this may mean Rockbox temporarily dedicating more RAM to themes than necessary on affected devices, it would restore themes to working condition that apparently were broken, and wouldn't have mean that you'd have that question of "if someone downloads my theme with a supported build, will they be able to get it work? Will they even know they need this extra file?" etc.

[bluebrother]

Saint has been a little unclear. The feature wasn't removed, it was removed until it's implemented in an agreeable way. Even the person who wrote the previous version admitted it wasn't the right way to do it.

I would still call that as being removed

But, why the reduction? Why not, at the very least, keep it at the 48.0KB? Couldn't it just be pushed up just a little bit more than what it is now? 

And if it's been pushed a little the next one will complain and ask it being pushed a little. And after yet another pushing the limit the next will ask ...

Sure, the situation is not really satisfying for your case. But instead of discussing about yet-another-workaround the time would be better spent to make a real solution. Reverting the skin_buffer_size.txt change wasn't one, as introducing it wasn't either. I neither liked its introduction nor its removal, and the way that went looks more like a personal fight of two individuals to me. Fortunately I'm neither involved with that case nor the affected code

[torne]

Work is underway on making the skin elements get dynamically allocated using buflib, which will remove the need to have a large static skin buffer at all.

[JdGordon]

Saint has been a little unclear. The feature wasn't removed, it was removed until it's implemented in an agreeable way. Even the person who wrote the previous version admitted it wasn't the right way to do it.

I didnt like the implementation sure, but it still made everyone happy.

the way that went looks more like a personal fight of two individuals to me. Fortunately I'm neither involved with that case nor the affected code

100% correct. but enough people stayed quiet and let it happen.

Work is underway on making the skin elements get dynamically allocated using buflib, which will remove the need to have a large static skin buffer at all.

Don't hold your breath. my patch is buggy as hell and unlikely to be suitable to try commiting any time soon (if ever)

[sockbox]

Be patient. Themes break between releases then they magically work again.

If i recall correctly, rockbox for the clip was released with 13k of skin buffer. Now it's pushing 40k. Be paitent with the development and it'll probably be double in the near future.

[KiwiCam]

Be patient. Themes break between releases then they magically work again.

If i recall correctly, rockbox for the clip was released with 13k of skin buffer. Now it's pushing 40k. Be paitent with the development and it'll probably be double in the near future.

I'll just concentrate on improving my code in the meantime
Post Merge: October 22, 2011, 04:43:39 PM[EDIT] No, wait!  I may have accidentally copied some old bitmaps and broken the themes that way. I'll come back...
Post Merge: October 22, 2011, 05:09:08 PMStrike the above. That one liner works perfectly. I am very pleased. Thanks for your suggestion Sockbox.