How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?

[skip252]

You still won't be able to open playlists from the WPS context, menu which is what this is about. The "View Playlist Catalog" menu item has been removed from the WPS context menu. There is no way I can find now to access saved playlists from the WPS regardless of save location. All access to the playlist catalog seems to be from the Main Menu now. A part of browsing and playing has been changed without that change being reflected in the manual.

From FS#12297

Closed by  Jonathan Gordon (jdgordon)
Tuesday, 04 October 2011, 07:49 GMT+2
Reason for closing:  Not a Bug
Additional comments about closing:  This isnt a bug. The "Playlist Catalogue" main menu item is that "View catalog" used to do. It should not be lnked to the wps context menu

The "View Catalog" menu item still shows as existing in the manual but it has in fact been removed.

http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-520004.3.3

Playlist catalogue

View catalogue.
    This lists all playlists that are part of the Playlist catalogue. You can load a new playlist directly from this list.

Add to playlist.
    Adds the currently playing file to a playlist. Select the playlist you want the file to be added to and it will get appended to that playlist.

Add to new playlist.
    Similar to the previous entry this will add the currently playing track to a playlist. You need to enter a name for the new playlist first.

As this appears to be a permanent change it would seem that the manual should reflect that. That would eliminate any future confusion as to why access to the Playlist Catalog from the WPS  context menu exists in the Release build but not the current builds.

It won't much matter to me as the removal of that item renders any future upgrades moot in my case. The ability to change  playlists with a few blind button presses is an essential element of why I use Rockbox. Now that's gone I'll have to stay with older builds if I continue to use Rockbox.

[JdGordon]

yes, the manual is out of date and iirc there is a bug to fix it. playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.

[Llorean]

To explain it a bit more clearly:

What you're running into are some changes that were intentionally made. The goal was to make the playlist catalog a little less confusing to people encountering it the first time. This does require a few extra button presses, though it shouldn't be as many as you're presenting. It shouldn't be a "maze like" way back to the WPS. The direct shortcut there should work, and if it doesn't, the main menu (which has a link to the WPS) should be a single button away. If neither of these works, it sounds like there are still bugs somewhere that need working out.

It's quite unlikely the playlist catalog is going to go back to working like it used to, but if you can narrow down actual bugs like keymap issues, rather than complaints about the redesign, it's possible they may be addressed.

Unfortunately when the new layout was designed, the question "what could people do before that they can't do now" doesn't seem to have been thoroughly explored by the author of the update.

As to a manual update, there's a growing trend of "I'll write the patch, and post a bug report expecting someone else to document the changes I made" which is what results in this sort of thing. Unfortunately there's rarely any pressure on the patch author to follow through and finish the manual update if someone else doesn't do it for him or her.

yes, the manual is out of date and iirc there is a bug to fix it. playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.

This is your personal opinion, but since the "context" is "Playback" and the playlist is "list of things to play back" it's pretty reasonable for people to expect it there. At the very least, one might want to insert the currently playing song (definitely context relevant) into another playlist.

[XavierB]

@skip252: THANK YOU VERY MUCH for actually reading my post.

It won't much matter to me as the removal of that item renders any future upgrades moot in my case. The ability to change  playlists with a few blind button presses is an essential element of why I use Rockbox. Now that's gone I'll have to stay with older builds if I continue to use Rockbox.

So this means I'm not alone with this annoyance.

I hoped by opening this thread someone could tell me a quicker way to load my playlist or, at least, draw the developers to attention that there is (in my point of view) a ergonomics problem.

playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.

I don't care if it shouldn't. (BTW, "Add to playlist" and "Add to new playlist" shouldn't be there, either) The only thing I wish for is a fast and efficient way (means, the least amount of key pressing possible) to load my playlist. If it goes via Context Menu or Main Menu is secondary.

yes, the manual is out of date

As to a manual update, there's a growing trend of "I'll write the patch, and post a bug report expecting someone else to document the changes I made" which is what results in this sort of thing. Unfortunately there's rarely any pressure on the patch author to follow through and finish the manual update if someone else doesn't do it for him or her.

I don't expect the manual to be updated for every current build. If it represents the stable build (and it does) I'm happy with it. Before loading a new build I usually try to go through the "Log Messages" of the recent builds. The IRC logs are to cumbersome for a "normal" Rockbox user like me to comb through for information. This usually works for me.

It shouldn't be a "maze like" way back to the WPS. The direct shortcut there should work,[...]

What is the "direct shortcut" to the WPS on the Clip+? Is it the the Home Button? Doesn't work for me. I end up one screen back or at the Main Menu at best, and still have to look on the screen and do some clicks to select "Now Playing" and therefore returning to WPS. With Rockbox v.3.9.1 I come straight back to WPS after loading a playlist.

It's quite unlikely the playlist catalog is going to go back to working like it used to, but if you can narrow down actual bugs like keymap issues, rather than complaints about the redesign, it's possible they may be addressed.

@Llorean: Is this directed to me? I just saw that one day the "View Catalogue" was missing from the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu in the Context Menu and it didn't come back. Still, it was present in the stable build. There was no information about the removal in the builds log (I ignored the the IRC, see above) and the forum, so I thought it might be a bug. JdGordon closed my bug reported with exactly that reason that you dismissed as his "personal opinion".

And I do consider complains about ergonomics and design as a kind of a bug report. It may be not so obvious to "recreate" since you have to temporarily put your personal believes and convictions of a perfect design aside and adopt the view of the "complainer". Hell, it took 16(!) posts on this thread until someone tried to read and understand what I was trying to say! (Is my English really THAT bad?!) If it gets addressed is another question but at least my opinion is out there and visible for others who share a similar if not even the same opinion.

I never would have imagined that the developers would have killed such an elegant way to load a playlist and replace/leave it with something that reminds me more of a clickfest. (And, yes, Sansa Clip+ make hearable click sounds.) Again, if someone knows a quicker way to load playlist or a build that addresses this problem, please a message on this board.

Untill then I'll stick to the version 3.9.1 and keep a copy of it on my hard drive, in case this "improvement" makes into a stable release.

[Llorean]

What is the "direct shortcut" to the WPS on the Clip+?

It's in the manual. I believe it's hold Home and hit another key, I'm not sure what.

@Llorean: Is this directed to me? I just saw that one day the "View Catalogue" was missing from the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu in the Context Menu and it didn't come back. Still, it was present in the stable build. There was no information about the removal in the builds log (I ignored the the IRC, see above) and the forum, so I thought it might be a bug. JdGordon closed my bug reported with exactly that reason that you dismissed as his "personal opinion".

The stable build is only updated once every few months. If every change were reflected in it, there would be no point in having it. The SVN log on the front page reflects current changes. No need to use IRC.

And I do consider complains about ergonomics and design as a kind of a bug report.

Desiring changes in the layout or ergonomics is a feature request. Bugs are when code does not work as the developers claim it should/does. In this case there is a bug, but technically it's apparently in the manual if the current versions of the manual do not describe the current versions of Rockbox.

I never would have imagined that the developers would have killed such an elegant way to load a playlist and replace/leave it with something that reminds me more of a clickfest. (And, yes, Sansa Clip+ make hearable click sounds.) Again, if someone knows a quicker way to load playlist or a build that addresses this problem, please a message on this board.

Playlists can literally be loaded from anywhere in the file browser. And clicking on them in the file browser should still just "play" them I believe. So if you keep a folder of playlists, turn "follow playlist" off, and click on one of them, you should be in the WPS. Once there, clicking "select" will show you that folder, and clicking a new one will launch it. This should result in faster switching between playlists than even the old context menu method.

Untill then I'll stick to the version 3.9.1 and keep a copy of it on my hard drive, in case this "improvement" makes into a stable release.

It will be in the next stable release, and all future ones, unless it's reverted.

[XavierB]

Thanks for replying, Llorean.

Quote from: XavierB on Today at 09:19:59 AM
What is the "direct shortcut" to the WPS on the Clip+?

It's in the manual. I believe it's hold Home and hit another key, I'm not sure what.

Just found another lengthy thread about this feature 
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28702.0.html

Desiring changes in the layout or ergonomics is a feature request.

Yes, I know. I never would do a feature request on the tracker. I genuinely thought it was bug, that was caused e.g. by a typo or something similar in the source code.

Playlists can literally be loaded from anywhere in the file browser. And clicking on them in the file browser should still just "play" them I believe. So if you keep a folder of playlists, turn "follow playlist" off, and click on one of them, you should be in the WPS. Once there, clicking "select" will show you that folder, and clicking a new one will launch it.[...]

Doesn't work for me. Using r30720 build right now, "follow playlist" is off (just checked), still opens the content of a playlist instead of playing it and returning to the WPS.

It will be in the next stable release, and all future ones, unless it's reverted.

This should result in faster switching between playlists than even the old context menu method.

I hope there is a way to change the order of the Main Menu entries, because right now I have to click 4x down to get to the playlists catalogue in comparison to 1x down + 1x press select in the Context Menu. Can't see how it makes it faster.

But thanks again for your efforts and time!  

[Llorean]

It will be in the next stable release, and all future ones, unless it's reverted.

This should result in faster switching between playlists than even the old context menu method.

I hope there is a way to change the order of the Main Menu entries, because right now I have to click 4x down to get to the playlists catalogue in comparison to 1x down + 1x press select in the Context Menu. Can't see how it makes it faster.

You're rearranging what I've said. I didn't claim the new layout should be faster. I claimed using it via the file browser should be faster, which was something you could've also done with older versions of Rockbox but didn't seem to be aware of.

Apparently selecting it in the file browser doesn't work. That was my misunderstanding. I don't use playlists this way, and before the change was implemented I thought I was told that in the catalog, select would browse the contents of the list, but in the file browser functionality would remain as it had before the change. This isn't apparently the case.

It should still be possible to play a playlist rather quickly by using "select" to open its folder, selecting a playlist, selecting the first song, then hitting the "return to WPS" combo.

[JdGordon]

yes, the manual is out of date and iirc there is a bug to fix it. playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.

That should have said "the "view playlist catalogue" should never have been in the WPS context menu as it is in no way relevant to the current playing track, the other 2 items in that submenu absolutly should be there.

playlists were changed to make them more like folders, the change added 1 click to how to start the playlist while at te same time opening up a bunch of use cases.
The short way to get to your playlists, like you keep crying about, is "main menu > playlist catalog"

[XavierB]

The short way to get to your playlists, like you keep crying about, is "main menu > playlist catalog"

Finally I understand why you are reacting so strongly about my complaints. YOU were the one who introduced these "improvements" or at least it references both times you as author. Although I don't know how much of a group work this is.

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/11808

http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=30177

It also coincides with the time I started to miss the functional feature.

So we end up with with a database that acts similar to a file browser (no problem with that, but I rarely use it), we have the file browser itself which also can be used to play files and folders (again no problem with that,  I use it quite often for podcasts) and, finally, we have playlists which now behaves similar to a file browser.

3 file browsers in Rockbox but no playlist functionality and expected behaviour like in the OF of the Sansa Clip/v2/+, Winamp, Window Media Player, Foobar2000, VLC, etc., etc., etc...

OH! ok, yeah, forget it. the playlist changes made them more understandable and more useful for just about everyone else. you can always use the .m3u context menu to play now instead of opening it first

Yeah, right...

Hilmar Pétursson would be proud of you...
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/

...or maybe not
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672&sp_rid=MzA1NTUxODk0MwS2&sp_mid=37156067

[chrisjj]

Xavier, I have the same problem. Thanks for your detailed analysis. And Well Done for the amazing patience you have exhibited in this thread.