FS#11767 meier crossfeed usage

[jimbilly]

I'm wondering if many people are using Meier crossfeed and your opinion of the effect.  I am struggling to even hear any difference between meier and no crossfeed.  Maybe my hearing is not keen enough or maybe my patch isn't working.   I like the default crossfeed and typically use that with phones.

i tried to hear it on quite a range of different music and I can't say that i hear a difference.

I'm using the RaaA paulheu builds which has the patch applied.

Thanks.

[gomsemari]

I also can't notice any great difference between Meier and Off.
I wonder if the patch is really working on my android device.
Is there a proper tool/method for analyzing an output?

[Lear]

I can hear a difference, but only on some tracks, where some instruments are mainly (or maybe completely) in one channel (e.g., some Beatles albums were mixed that way). The ordinary crossfeed affects the bass on some tracks in a way I don't like, so I prefer the Meier crossfeed.

[johnb]

I do usually hear a difference (depending on the song) in a way that origins of instruments are moved from the side towards the front.
I use even Meier V3 which is more subtle.

I don't like the original Crossfeed at all.

[Julian67]

I've just started using the Meier crossfeed patch.  I had tried the original Rockbox crossfeed but was dissatisfied with the amount of detail being lost and the rather indistinct sound produced.  It seems to exaggerate and muddle the bass and its presence is quite obvious.  I tried different settings but didn't even get close to anything that would work equally well on lots of different albums.  Also the unsubtle tonal changes make any existing headphone specific Eq presets pretty much useless and one would need different presets for crossfeed on and off.

I'm really impressed with the Meier v3 patch.  It needs updating to work with current svn (because line numbers have changed) but it was easy enough to work it out and I made some Meier patched builds from yesterdays svn for my Clip+, iriver H140 and H340.  I've spent several hours listening including some orchestral and operatic pieces with big soundstages, some rock, some country and a few bits and pieces.  The Meier crossfeed is effective in presenting a coherent and believable soundstage without introducing any noticeable tonal change or artefact.  It does an good job of undoing that feeling of sound to the left, sound to the right and another sound in the middle of the head.  On some tracks one can't hear a difference toggling it on and off, while on others it is easily apparent.  The only album I have where I thought the old crossfeed works better is Bob Marley and the Wailers' Soul Revolution I, which is definitely atypical.  It is two track but not exactly stereo; each channel is completely different, to the point that on some songs the music comes exclusively from one speaker and the singing exclusively from the other...weird enough with speakers, with headphones and normal amplification it is basically unlistenable.  With Meier it's tolerable; with standard crossfeed it sounds almost normal.  In every other case I prefer Meier>untouched>standard crossfeed.  My custom Eq presets work just as well with Meier as without and there don't seem to be any downsides.

I think it would be great if the Meier patch made it into the official builds.

[Julian67]

I updated from svn yesterday, r31095M, and find that the Meier crossfeed is now included, no patch required.  This is excellent.

[saratoga]

I updated from svn yesterday, r31095M, and find that the Meier crossfeed is now included, no patch required.  This is excellent.

Meier crossfeed is not included in our builds.  You can check that here:

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11767

Also any build ending in 'M' isn't from our SVN.  M actually stands for "modified" meaning its an unofficial build with unspecified changes.

[Julian67]

I updated from svn yesterday, r31095M, and find that the Meier crossfeed is now included, no patch required.  This is excellent.

Meier crossfeed is not included in our builds.  You can check that here:

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11767

Also any build ending in 'M' isn't from our SVN.  M actually stands for "modified" meaning its an unofficial build with unspecified changes.

You're right, my mistake.  It's my build from svn, not a downloaded build, hence the version number.  I had done a make clean and svn update but had forgotten I was still working with some patched files.  Luckily it all worked....

Is there any technical reason the Meier patch is not in svn, or is it a case of lack of interest or time or similar?

[markanini]

I think this this crossfeed patch is even better but it's not very efficient in it's current state.

[Julian67]

The final crossfeed patch in FS#11577 is the earlier version of the Meier crossfeed in FS#11767.  Looking at the patches it seems to me that they apply the same changes in the same way.  The earlier patch in FS#11577 is different: a proof of concept, user configurable (so all kinds of sound possibilities) , requiring testing and comment, now completed and closed.

[markanini]

Julian67, that's certainly setting the record straight. I use #11577 myself and lower the delay setting step to 10(from 50). I find this gives me a superior crossfeed effect, battery life be damned. Each head size is different and requires a different delay to make 30° HRTF accurate.

[jfmaion]

+1 to add it to the main release, great job.

Perhaps in a very slightly less subtle form though...

(And I created an account on the forum just for this, that's how important Crossfeed is to me and one of the main reasons I use Rockbox on my iPod

[JohnP]

http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/227/

I can't wait to check this out on my 'boxed iPod Classic !
'subtle' is just how crossfeed should be IMO,  you should only 'notice' it when it's truly needed

But maybe someone could figure out what's 'wrong' with the crossfeed we already have and fix it  ?
Shouldn't it be possible to mimic the meir-patch accurately with the existing crossfeed-implementation ??
(No matter what I try it sounds 'muffled' and I also find that 'centre' is somewhat exaggerated)

[saratoga]

But maybe someone could figure out what's 'wrong' with the crossfeed we already have and fix it  ?
Shouldn't it be possible to mimic the meir-patch accurately with the existing crossfeed-implementation ??
(No matter what I try it sounds 'muffled' and I also find that 'centre' is somewhat exaggerated)

No, they're different algorithms.  There is nothing wrong with the stock one, its just a different way to compute a crossfeed circuit.  IIRC the Meier crossfeed attenuates lower frequencies, whereas the stock one does not.